Update / Change the Skinning Engine

[CarlitoGil]

Mediamonkey is really the best Audio Organizer, Although the UI keeps it form becoming a really good everyday Music Player.
All the skins look really unprofessional, from what I gather is because they are. The best generally good looking skin I've seen its ION, and that too has problems design wise, including the player.
Not only does MediaMonkey fails to provide a good default skin, one for at least 10+ years old people and that looks from 2002 or later, with icons from this century, but it's skinning engine is problematic, I once tried to make a skin, got it pretty advance but had to leave it aside. Things like inflexible ways to skin the internal borders, remove the shadow of the menu icons when selected, no transparency for icons, can't change the yellow MM icon, etc. make you apply some kind of fix that takes away from your design.
MM needs a professional look, look at Songbird, that's the best looking media manager, doesn't have the functionality of MM yet because they are just starting, using it doesn't strain your eyes with kiddie looking skins or boring windows looking no skin at all.

[Dreadlau]

hi,

I agree, Mediamonkey need improvement in this area.

If you have some specific wish for the skinning engine,
you could post them in this thread

[nohitter151]

Mediamonkey is really the best Audio Organizer, Although the UI keeps it form becoming a really good everyday Music Player.
All the skins look really unprofessional, from what I gather is because they are. The best generally good looking skin I've seen its ION, and that too has problems design wise, including the player.

Thanks, I'm sure all of the skinners appreciate that you have basically just spit in their faces

Not only does MediaMonkey fails to provide a good default skin, one for at least 10+ years old people and that looks from 2002 or later, with icons from this century,

... and who, exactly, made you the expert in this subject?

but it's skinning engine is problematic, I once tried to make a skin, got it pretty advance but had to leave it aside. Things like inflexible ways to skin the internal borders,

We're in agreement at least here, though there are workarounds.

remove the shadow of the menu icons when selected,

Sorry pal, but the "shadow" can be removed.

no transparency for icons,

Wrong again...

can't change the yellow MM icon, etc. make you apply some kind of fix that takes away from your design.

I suppose in Songbird you can remove the Songbird icon?

MM needs a professional look, look at Songbird, that's the best looking media manager, doesn't have the functionality of MM yet because they are just starting, using it doesn't strain your eyes with kiddie looking skins or boring windows looking no skin at all.

Sorry, but a skin doesn't have to be an iTunes clone to be "good". That's certainly what Songbird is and I think you are just criticizing MediaMonkey for having a unique, new look. Certainly there are improvements that could be made to the skinning engine, of course it is far from perfect, but please make your requests for that in a way that isn't disrespectful to all of the skinners who have already spent so much time developing skins.

[rovingcowboy]

Mediamonkey is really the best Audio Organizer,
Not only does MediaMonkey fails to provide a good default skin, one for at least 10+ years old people and that looks from 2002 or later,

well i happen to know morten is a lot older then the 10, so his default skin is for older then that age.

now if you want a kid style skin look at jungle monkees that is made for kids of all ages.

so is most of my skins. but calling the monkey hi fi skin, and concert skin and the trucking monkey skin
or startreking monkey skin basicly any of my skins other then junglemonkees kiddie style is just flatt wrong.

and shows lack of trying them. so you don't like lots of colors thats up to you. but there are 40,000 people that have looked at my skins page even if 10 % got the skins that is 4000 that did. so i'll go with their ideas and thoughts and wants before i take one person's grip that mediamonkey is not looking like songbird which they like better.

this whole post sounds like you are a developer for song bird trying to get people to go to your program. wheather or not you are i can't really know as you did not say.

but you did say mediamonkey is the best organizer for music that is true, but you are wrong about its player not working for an all day player. i have been playing mediamonkey 2.5.5.998 all day every day for the last 4 or 5 years as a jukebox it is played using my old version's skins and uses scripts to keep changing playlists and other items all day nothing has gone terribley wrong cause of media monkey most the trouble is from the windows system i use for jukebox which is still windows 98 golden.
but it even is working now with out any reformating since 1999. so you need to re think your posts and do some research on this forum before you open mouth and insert both feet.

[DreadM]

Greetings

@gil

my monkey runs for years now every day ,and i find nothing better there outside.

unprofessional! yes, the most of us are no profis ,but we like to skin and try our best.

shure the skin engine need to be update,but some things must grow slowy,

Sorry, but a skin doesn't have to be an iTunes clone to be "good". That's certainly what Songbird is and I think you are just criticizing MediaMonkey for having a unique, new look. Certainly there are improvements that could be made to the skinning engine, of course it is far from perfect, but please make your requests for that in a way that isn't disrespectful to all of the skinners who have already spent so much time developing skins.

Yes ,what to say more.

[CarlitoGil]

Mediamonkey is really the best Audio Organizer, Although the UI keeps it form becoming a really good everyday Music Player.
All the skins look really unprofessional, from what I gather is because they are. The best generally good looking skin I've seen its ION, and that too has problems design wise, including the player.

Thanks, I'm sure all of the skinners appreciate that you have basically just spit in their faces

Talk about not taking criticism well. Are they professional? You sure we can't point out design problems in that or other skins?

Not only does MediaMonkey fails to provide a good default skin, one for at least 10+ years old people and that looks from 2002 or later, with icons from this century,

... and who, exactly, made you the expert in this subject?

The overall design tendencies in MM skins are bright colors, big buttons, and features and shapes that do not have funtionality as a priority. The way you design graphics for kids.
The icons, all I could find, but specially the defaults, my main concern, have an outdated style, no alpha channel, and a rainbow of colors.
Are they more like Windows 98, or Windows Vis... 7 or Mac OS X?

but it's skinning engine is problematic, I once tried to make a skin, got it pretty advance but had to leave it aside. Things like inflexible ways to skin the internal borders,

We're in agreement at least here, though there are workarounds.

Yeah, I said that out of the quotes.
I didn't like them.

remove the shadow of the menu icons when selected,

Sorry pal, but the "shadow" can be removed.

As I remember, that would also remove the shadow in other places where you did wanted them.
That reminds that I tried to make the icons transparent, because the icons clutter the menus, which I'd like to be able to skin away.

no transparency for icons,

Wrong again...

Not alpha transparency channel, otherwise it's not useful for making icon packs that fit many skins, and again, doesn't look pixelated like Windows 98's
Doubt they updated that, did they? Although when I tried it some icons, like rating star and other were failing to replace the originals breaking design, but I've seen that fixed.

can't change the yellow MM icon, etc. make you apply some kind of fix that takes away from your design.

I suppose in Songbird you can remove the Songbird icon?

Check Songbird out. What icon? I mean in the skin. Nothing as distracting or contrasting with colors as an yellow and black icon in every window like properties. SB is 1.0 just out, I really think it will be the best and with great addons like Firefox it could get the power MM has for macro managing files, but that's another story.

MM needs a professional look, look at Songbird, that's the best looking media manager, doesn't have the functionality of MM yet because they are just starting, using it doesn't strain your eyes with kiddie looking skins or boring windows looking no skin at all.

Sorry, but a skin doesn't have to be an iTunes clone to be "good". That's certainly what Songbird is and I think you are just criticizing MediaMonkey for having a unique, new look. Certainly there are improvements that could be made to the skinning engine, of course it is far from perfect, but please make your requests for that in a way that isn't disrespectful to all of the skinners who have already spent so much time developing skins.

Songbird has three main thing that reminds you of iTunes
It's overall grayness, Well distributed panels (even if they are differently arranged), and the buttons of the players.
Ask anybody that knows what they are talking about, if nothing, Mac OS X, and Mac software UI are just gorgeous. Plain, Minimalistic, Well thought out.
They are worth imitating. I don't care who you think did it first, I want what works and makes sense.
Oh wait, isn't there a iTunes MM skin? right, but the skin engine makes hard the implementation, it like in MM a skin never looks finished even if it is a great idea.
Do you accuse Songbird of being a clone of CS4?, because those menus in the titlebar are looking great.
To not be a clone of other software I gotta put circular icons and menus vertical on the sides? Is Windows unoriginal because it uses an arrow as a pointer and not crosshairs, or is it Apple, or who knows maybe none of then invented user interface, next they'll say, ooh ironkow xerox invented it.

What I'm saying is MM needs to take care of an official great skin and make it easy and flexible for user to skin it.

I know a lot of people have put a lot of work in theirs skins, but I think the bar is too low for MM skins.
By the way you seem bothered by my remarks one could say you are a skinner. But I guess you either haven't tried it or didn't get too creative or made the MMMM3: Micky Mouse MediaMonkey 3 Skin. No offense meant.

[nohitter151]

I know a lot of people have put a lot of work in theirs skins, but I think the bar is too low for MM skins.
By the way you seem bothered by my remarks one could say you are a skinner. But I guess you either haven't tried it or didn't get too creative or made the MMMM3: Micky Mouse MediaMonkey 3 Skin. No offense meant.

Actually I have put together several skins, clearly you haven't researched the available MM skins.

Oh, and whether you meant offense or not, you still were offensive to me, and probably to other skinners as well. I hope you can be more gentle in your future posts that are critical of peoples work.

[Dreadlau]

Gil,
Which skins did you try yet?
Are you using MM3.0 or MM3.1?

Nohitter did made an original design skin: Vitreous Blue.
And it has a clean and professional look. In a similar spirit as Ion but using the vista UI schemes.

[CarlitoGil]

Actually I have put together several skins, clearly you haven't researched the available MM skins.

Actually I had installed and used all of those skins, liked Soft Blue's concept of the soft title bar but don't like the multicolor top right buttons, as well as other things.
What I didn't know is that you did them, but to you that "clearly" means i hadn't researched them. Does research means use them or knowing that nohitter151 made them, date of publishing, influences...

You really seem to take criticism hard and take it when its not meant for you, or maybe just wanted to brag about skins because you're taking it personally

Didn't you criticize Songbird for cloning iTunes?
What's the difference when you make a Zune skin?
Seems to me you may be biased againt Appleish things

I hope you can be more gentle in your future posts that are critical of peoples work.

Look buddy (not really), anything can be offensive to someone, if the words I use are offensive on their own I expect to be banned like everyone else and if someone thinks what I say lacks honesty and truth then I'll take forum replys like right now.

[CarlitoGil]

Gil,
Which skins did you try yet?

All I could find, different search engines, very different days.

Generally what MM is lacking is a really good neutral skin, with every detail possible skinned. The MediaMonkey Skin.

Are you using MM3.0 or MM3.1?

Recently installed 3.1.0.1222 beta to try some things
Why?

Nohitter did made an original design skin: Vitreous Blue.
And it has a clean and professional look. In a similar spirit as Ion but using the vista UI schemes.

Original is not, that is a fact.
For the sake of argument I'll say that in my opinion it's not professional looking

[nohitter151]

You really seem to take criticism hard and take it when its not meant for you, or maybe just wanted to brag about skins because you're taking it personally

Why wouldn't I take it personally? You insulted every MM skin, including mine.

Didn't you criticize Songbird for cloning iTunes?
What's the difference when you make a Zune skin?
Seems to me you may be biased againt Appleish things

Sure, I might have been critical. But I didn't insult Songbird, did I. No one ever said that being a "clone" is bad, but the words you used

"one for at least 10+ years old people and that looks from 2002 or later, with icons from this century"

are quite insulting. And I don't have any problem with Apple, I have an iPhone, iPod and also designed an iPod skin!

Look buddy (not really), anything can be offensive to someone

That isn't true, plenty of others (including me!) have expressed their dissatisfaction with the Theme Engine and MM skins without insulting every single person that has ever contributed a skin to MediaMonkey. All I ask is that you aren't so critical to the point of being insulting.

[CarlitoGil]

but you did say mediamonkey is the best organizer for music that is true, but you are wrong about its player not working for an all day player.

I was talking about the user expirience of MM as a Music Player with regards of it's graphics and layout design. Not that it didn't crash.

so you need to re think your posts and do some research on this forum before you open mouth and insert both feet.

What you need is to understand that just because you think you understand something doesn't mean you do.
That way you'll stop proyecting yourself onto others.

[CarlitoGil]

You really seem to take criticism hard and take it when its not meant for you, or maybe just wanted to brag about skins because you're taking it personally

Why wouldn't I take it personally? You insulted every MM skin, including mine.

Some people are capable of talking about their work and not take it personally, that means take offense, especially where there is not, that's why.

Didn't you criticize Songbird for cloning iTunes?
What's the difference when you make a Zune skin?
Seems to me you may be biased againt Appleish things

Sure, I might have been critical. But I didn't insult Songbird, did I. No one ever said that being a "clone" is bad, but the words you used

"one for at least 10+ years old people and that looks from 2002 or later, with icons from this century"

are quite insulting. And I don't have any problem with Apple, I have an iPhone, iPod and also designed an iPod skin!

I was going to ask you to quote me the "offensive" thing I said.

First, I didn't insult MediaMonkey, which would be the equivalent of Songbird in that analogy, I criticized it's skins, which are different things given that you can change them, and criticized it's skinning engine but I guess that's not what you meant.

Thats the problem with forums, or just people maybe. They don't read in context. The quote should be

MediaMonkey fails to provide a good default skin, one for at least 10+ years old people and that looks from 2002 or later

That does not encompass your nor "every MM skin".
That clearly refers to the default skin which have the traits that I previously described and characterized as childish, or do I have to ask if glided seems to you to posses the universality of design that Apple products generally have and made them so popular that grandparents and kids alike are able to use them and be satisfied? Like iTunes.
MediaMonkey is fit for more advanced users. I get a lot done with regular expressions with the RegExp script and that's not for everyone, but I think MM could make it easier for itself to be mainstream with better UI, which I think everybody agrees can be better. Or users with more requirements do not deserve a good UI, everything gotta be green, black and l33t.

By the way, about the "Appleish things" remark, don't take that kind of bait.

Look buddy (not really), anything can be offensive to someone

That isn't true, plenty of others (including me!) have expressed their dissatisfaction with the Theme Engine and MM skins without insulting every single person that has ever contributed a skin to MediaMonkey. All I ask is that you aren't so critical to the point of being insulting.

Again, you are taking offense where there is not.
Criticism and insults are not steps of the same ladder.

I would say that maybe you love MM too much, but now that we're getting to be friends I think you'll find that offensive.

[nohitter151]

I would say that maybe you love MM too much, but now that we're getting to be friends I think you'll find that offensive.

Haha well you're right about loving MM too much.

Post #7100

[rovingcowboy]

but you did say mediamonkey is the best organizer for music that is true, but you are wrong about its player not working for an all day player.

I was talking about the user expirience of MM as a Music Player with regards of it's graphics and layout design. Not that it didn't crash.

so you need to re think your posts and do some research on this forum before you open mouth and insert both feet.

What you need is to understand that just because you think you understand something doesn't mean you do.
That way you'll stop proyecting yourself onto others.

well you left it open to the line of thought that it was a crashing issue you were talking about..

you still need to rethink and do searching on the forum before you post. as to whether you think i am projecting my own thoughts on to other's, your wrong.

this statement you said to nohitter151

Original is not, that is a fact.
For the sake of argument I'll say that in my opinion it's not professional looking

but I'll say this the professional looking is up to the eye of the beholder.
and what do you consider professional looking?
all black with white outlines for the borders to see what you need to click on?

thats not professional looking in my idea. thats a cheap a... lazy way for a professional skinner to skin something because they were too lazy to do more images. you can see more talent in most the other non professional skinners in this programs skins then in songbirds.
or is it that you mean there needs to be over or around 10,000 images for the skins to be professional. which is what the jet audio player has for its skins images. thats a bunch of crap to need that many images.
only someone being paid 50 us dollars an hour would sit on their chair for that length of time to make one skin for that program, or someone that really really really wanted to use that program but have their own skin.

but whether or not the button images are from older skins just recycled in a new one. that is because of users being able to understand which button does what in just a glance.

you said in the original post that you thought there should be newer buttons, well if you did in fact try all the skins.
you would have found my skins have different buttons some are not even seen as buttons like the trucking monkey, or the floating player guitar of the hillbillyrock diner skin. even the buttons on that main player are different.
just cause you want something different is no reason to say the skins are no good,

it is a reason to post a request for a skin to that of what you like. one of us would more then likely have tried to make one for you. the guitar skin i did was a request by some one, so was the concert one.
so was the the musicbringer pub skin, and i gave him full control over the images and look of it he just could not make it. so i put it together.
there are lots of other skinners here that are helpful. but if any of them took insult by your post here. they might not want to help make you a skin.

also you said you tried to make a skin. you want a black style one. (as that is what the songbird one is)

there is the members skinning project skin still waiting for player skins. its a black theme skin. try making some images and sending them to a skinner to make the player for that theme, or make the player skin for that your self.

follow the rules you find for it on the wiki page for the members skinning project.
there are ways to get your skins made just by asking and searching the forum.

you also said you wanted every button or item on the skin. thats true i think they should be there also. which is why i have put all the ones on my skins. just not in the normal looking buttons designs.
even the startrekingmonkey skin has everything in it including the 5 custom fields well everything that was there at the time i made the skin, as always I'll have to go in and up date them for the 3.1 version.


as for what the skinning engine needs that is understandable and very well wanted by most.
and petrcbr is trying to get new items in it and get them all working together, if anyone can do it he can.
but send him some programming help if you can program, or some suggestions. he listens.
Morten got lots of the ideas in that way, even a professional skinner will still have to use the same engine and come up with the same type of skins. so there is no reason not to think that the ones now are not done as professionally as possible. some are just designed for kind of old fashion looks or for enjoyment of looking at a different style of skin, then the normal in my opinon solid black lackluster boring skins.