Why is there no Search node in Media Tree? [#16563 #18103]

[terryo]

In MM4, there was a Search node available in the left pane Media Tree. MM5 no longer shows that option under "Edit and configure nodes to display:"

I used it quite frequently to zip between search results. How can I restore this?

[Barry4679]

See comparison of Navigation History facility between MM4 (left side) & MM5 (right side).
In both cases I did these steps:

• navigate to EntireLibrary node

• filter on on "colour" all text fields

• filter on "captain" all text fields

• filter on "joni" all text fields

• navigate to a custom collection

• open a sub-node

MM4 has:

• remembered each of these steps

• given each a descriptive contextual name, so that I can easily identify and return to a previous step

MM5 has:

• has remembered just 3 of my 6 steps; it has not remebered any of my filter steps

• has given generic, rather than contextual names ... which is nowhere as useful as it was in MM4 ... ie. if I navigate, using the Media Tree, from CollectionA>Genre to CollectionB>Composer ... it records just the sub-node name, but not the collection to which it belongs ... everything becomes a mess quickly

[Lowlander]

This is no longer a feature, it has been removed. You'll need to do the search again.

[Lowlander]

As Search is not a node, it isn't part of the History which is based on the nodes in the Media Tree.

[rusty]

Note that if you create a filter, it's automatically saved in the 'Recently used' list of filters. Also, re. recent searches not always appearing, we've re-opened https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=16563 for review.

Thanks for the feedback!

-Rusty

[terryo]

Lowlander writes: "This is no longer a feature, it has been removed. You'll need to do the search again."

Oh wow. Just like that. Make using MM more difficult with no apologies, no regrets. No more quick clicks for easy access to comparing search results. Just , BAM, gone, live with it.

With all the other MM5 deletions, changes and, in addition, the requested debugging reports I am now doing just so I can scramble back toward the really good functionality I had in MM4, I must say I am really disappointed. I thought MM was a cut above all the other companies that all too often update and introduce frustration into my life. Only this is worse. I paid money to get treated like this.

[Peke]

Lowlander writes: "This is no longer a feature, it has been removed. You'll need to do the search again."

Oh wow. Just like that. Make using MM more difficult with no apologies, no regrets. No more quick clicks for easy access to comparing search results. Just , BAM, gone, live with it.

With all the other MM5 deletions, changes and, in addition, the requested debugging reports I am now doing just so I can scramble back toward the really good functionality I had in MM4, I must say I am really disappointed. I thought MM was a cut above all the other companies that all too often update and introduce frustration into my life. Only this is worse. I paid money to get treated like this.

Well, I am not starting to argue about facts, but both of you are correct. Yes feature is removed as we were thinking that we are making you a favor and MM5 was free for all MM Gold users for 5 years without a single complain. On the other hand we thought we can re purpose some other features in order to make taht still available to users, but as Rusty pointed we missed it ot got under pile of other more important features (again no one complained). So as soon we got one complain there was as offline internal meeting resulting in reopening of a bug. Which if you agree comply with your previous experience with us.

That said, thank you for pointing us on mistakes, please consider a bit less severe judgement as we are regretting and accepting mistake (Microsoft took a blow of several % of market share with ME/Vista/8.x before accepted mistake and 11 looks like another same attempt) and instead of that let us give you a chance to tell us your suggestion on how not to return exact same feature, but make simpler and better for users like you? eg. where would you put the Search history be better accessible and more permanent than in MM4?

[Ludek]

The MRU list is still there, just in another location (to work also without Media Tree component enabled).

- for simple seach it is within the searchbar dropbown: https://www.dropbox.com/s/aux7fzi8ovxyd ... 8.png?dl=0

- for advanced search it is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tsybyb2vo2c9c ... 1.png?dl=0

[Barry4679]

The MRU list is still there, just in another location (to work also without Media Tree component enabled).

- for simple seach it is within the searchbar dropbown: https://www.dropbox.com/s/aux7fzi8ovxyd ... 8.png?dl=0

- for advanced search it is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tsybyb2vo2c9c ... 1.png?dl=0

Good to know. Thanks.
Some feedback: I think that I have already made several of these points earlier.

1. the MRU is in FIFO order ... LIFO is much preferred ... Iin a situation where there is a lot of searching the FIFO list requires scrolling to get down to get visibility of recent searches
2. alternatively is there any way to clear the MRU list? It was possible to remove entries from the MM$ MRU ... but IMO a LIFO list is a clear requirement ...
3. you didn't mention the most likely search method for Gold customers, ie. Contextual Search ... your new mechanism fails in Contextual Search because there is no way to open, or get to, an empty search control for the initial down arrow key press
4. the OP mentioned that he did have the Media Tree component open, and there was easy to and from access between the old Search node and the Main Panel ... the current mechanism introduces at least 3 fiddly keystrokes, so is very much less useful for his Use Case ... could you consider adding a Hot key action to open the MRU, and move focus into into it?

[terryo]

First: I am a DJ not a developer. I don't know what MRU stands for. My assumption from the context is it has something to do with searches, beyond that, I am clueless.

Second: The search dropdown in simple search on 2419 only reveals search tips. If there is some magic trick that allows it to display previous search terms, I am unable to discover it. I cannot reproduce what I see in the dropbox picture Ludek sent.

Third: The advanced search is pretty obtuse. I haven't stumbled across a place to enter "the following criteria" as specified between after "Match All" and a "+" symbol. If there is an entry box it is certainly not obvious. So I can't even get to figuring out how to show a dropdown of previous searches.

Terry O'



Re: Why is there no Search node in Media Tree? [#16563]

Post by Ludek » Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:28 am
The MRU list is still there, just in another location (to work also without Media Tree component enabled).

- for simple seach it is within the searchbar dropbown: https://www.dropbox.com/s/aux7fzi8ovxyd ... 8.png?dl=0

- for advanced search it is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tsybyb2vo2c9c ... 1.png?dl=0
Ludek

[Lowlander]

On build 2420 when you start typing other matching queries previously searched for what you're typing for will be shown in a drop-down. However this does require you to type at least 1 character to be shown and only searches matching that letter will show.

Added for review: https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=18103

[Barry4679]

On build 2420 when you start typing other matching queries previously searched for what you're typing for will be shown in a drop-down. However this does require you to type at least 1 character to be shown and only searches matching that letter will show.

And the display is filtered to only phrases that start with that letter, so is of limited used when you are searching for something.

[terryo]

I agree with Barry4679. The feature Lowlander described is all but useless. It doesn't allow me to quickly toggle between say a search for Dr. Lonnie Smith and Jimmy Smith. In Jazz, the people who play on particular recordings is crucial info. My search fields includes "Involved people" because that's where I painstakingly store this info. I also include "Comments" even though it is less than ideal because some disks arrive with the supporting players listed there.

[terryo]

Peke wrote:
Well, I am not starting to argue about facts, but both of you are correct. Yes feature is removed as we were thinking that we are making you a favor and MM5 was free for all MM Gold users for 5 years without a single complain. On the other hand we thought we can re purpose some other features in order to make taht still available to users, but as Rusty pointed we missed it ot got under pile of other more important features (again no one complained). So as soon we got one complain there was as offline internal meeting resulting in reopening of a bug. Which if you agree comply with your previous experience with us.

That said, thank you for pointing us on mistakes, please consider a bit less severe judgement as we are regretting and accepting mistake (Microsoft took a blow of several % of market share with ME/Vista/8.x before accepted mistake and 11 looks like another same attempt) and instead of that let us give you a chance to tell us your suggestion on how not to return exact same feature, but make simpler and better for users like you? eg. where would you put the Search history be better accessible and more permanent than in MM4?


My preference for the Search history is a hover over the search box. Alternatively, an alt+click on the search box would work because I use the alt+ heavily for diacritics in foreign languages.

My apologies for when my frustrations get the better of me. I was a Fortran programmer in the 1970s. Even back then when coding was much simpler, it could be vexing to get the code just right. And back then my work was self contained and did not need to be reworked every time an outside entity like an operating system changed the ground rules.

Now I program music not computers. As a result, I use MM constantly. There is no other option because all the competing software other DJs and the station staff have shown me lack the vital functionality and ease of use I grew accustomed to in MM4.

I use MM much too heavily to get involved in Beta versions. I ignored the free offerings of MM5 waiting for a solid release. I assumed the functionality of the new version of MM would be pretty much the same as MM4, the internal workings would get some kinks and rough edges smoothed out, and perhaps some interesting new features would be added. In some respects this happened, most noticeably when Properties snaps open much faster than it ever did in MM4.

But, I never expected echoes of MS Windows when they took the menu out of Office and plastered a bloated ribbon in its place, a completely reworked interface that buries or loses the functionality on which I depend.

In MM5, there are so many revamped operations that slow or obscure the functionality compared to MM4. Yes, MM5 generally runs faster and smoother, but my overall user experience is slowed and frustrated because the new interface is requires many more clicks and in some cases deleted features on which I depend for efficiently accomplishing my work.

The only reason I am recently able to spend so much time on the forum is I am on hiatus from my radio show. I have some time and space to migrate to MM5 and try to get fluent. If I had not taken this leave, I would have immediately gone back to MM4 because MM5 makes more work for me in maintaining my library and ordinarily I could not spare this time.

When I am not frustrated, I am amazed at how responsive MM folks are to addressing the needs of users. After 10+ years in MM4, I know what I am experiencing now are teething problems for MM5. I fully appreciate the commitment it takes to accommodate demanding users, particularly ones like me who can sometimes get rude.

[Peke]

Hi,

I was a Fortran programmer in the 1970s.

OK, that explains it I coded in Clipper earlier and despised Fartran coders. For all other words only thing I can say is my personal, Thank you.

FYI I only wish that releasing MM5 was the relief, but we expected chaos from which we will make order like you said about MM4. Biting a bullet is never easy, but sometimes necessity in order to evolve and get new inspiration to innovate. So blame us how much you want, but for now we accepted the challenge and MM5 can only get better PERIOD.

EDIT: Now, Only thing I miss is way to PIN current Search results that I often use, but that is me. I organize music in Auto-Playlists a lot and it is easier for me to navigate, along it allows me to have same playlists on my devices easily accessible.

EDIT 2: Well, as a fellow ex-DJ, Radio producer, ex one man music Radio show executive, I would like to see new Topic with UI Mockup on what are the essential features one need for easily maintaining Radio Show Set?