[SOLVED] where is metadata (esp ratings) stored for flac files? can they be stored in the file itself?

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lccseh
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[SOLVED] where is metadata (esp ratings) stored for flac files? can they be stored in the file itself?

Post by lccseh »

i searched the forums but could not find a clear let alone recent answer

i have settled on using flac files, and am carefully rating my large library.

ideally, the ratings and other metadata (artwork, genres) would be stored in the flac files themselves.

where does mm save the ratings? is it possible for mm to save this metadata in the flac files?

thanks !

les
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Lowlander
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Re: where is metadata (esp ratings) stored for flac files? can they be stored in the file itself?

Post by Lowlander »

By default in both the files metadata and the database: https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/index. ... erties/4.0
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)
MacGuyver
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Re: where is metadata (esp ratings) stored for flac files? can they be stored in the file itself?

Post by MacGuyver »

In response to this thread, I'm wondering exactly how Mediamonkey has implemented ratings into FLAC files.

It seems that some other MP3 tagging programs use a different method of implementing FLAC ratings. When I try rating FLAC files in Media monkey, the ratings do not show up in other programs when I load the FLAC files after rating them in Media Monkey.

In other tagging programs (for example, Metatogger), the FLAC field for ratings is labelled H2 and a 5 star rating would be recorded in this ratings field as 255 and displayed as 5 in other player software. Perhaps you are using a different system? I see in your documentation you indicate "non-standard" for rating FLAC files. This concerns me that you have chosen a different way of implementing this. I would love for this to be consistent with other popular tagging programs if possible to ensure that FLAC ratings are consistent. Or is there no consistency on this issue anywhere?

Yes I have checked "update tags when editing properties" in Media Monkey options.
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Re: where is metadata (esp ratings) stored for flac files? can they be stored in the file itself?

Post by Peke »

Hi,
Can you please supply us DL links with two FLAC files eg. one from Metatogger and one from MM5 rated for example 3/3.5 stars?
Best regards,
Peke
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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Re: where is metadata (esp ratings) stored for flac files? can they be stored in the file itself?

Post by MacGuyver »

Hi, thank you for the prompt response.

I have uploaded a single file at the following location. I will explain why I only uploaded one file.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yCodIW ... sp=sharing

This is a 5 meg FLAC file.

Step 1 - To start with I rated it 1 star in Media Monkey for the test.

- In a program like Tagscanner, the rating shows up in the ratings field and is registered as 20 (5 stars is 100). Confirmation that the Media Monkey tag is writing to the file. However...
- In a program like Metatogger, the rating field (Labelled as H2_Rating) is empty! Did not work.
- Also, if I use another playback program like Helium to import this same file, it shows as having no rating (just like Metatogger)

Step 2 - Inside Helium, I rated this same file now as 3 stars.
- When I re-imported back into Media Monkey or Tagscanner, this change does not register. It still shows 1 star in both.
- When I re-imported back Into Metatogger, the rating field (H2-Rating) is now displaying Default =153 so this is displaying the updated 3 star rating.(5 stars is 255)
In Tagscanner, the rating still shows as 20 (single star)

If you check this FLAC file I believe you will find that there are two different fields that the different program are using for FLAC ratings. So this file is rated BOTH 3 stars and 1 star, depending on which program you use to view. This is why I sent you only 1 file.

Are you open to changing the default behavior of Media monkey, so that BOTH the rating field AND H2_Rating is modified when someone rates a track? This would create the most compatibility with other programs, to ensure that Ratings always display correct. I hope you will consider this.
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Re: where is metadata (esp ratings) stored for flac files? can they be stored in the file itself?

Post by Peke »

Hi,
Thank you for the file, I understand it more clearly, but unfortunately I can't fully collate with your statement "This would create the most compatibility with other programs" as except Helium natively all other software like Metatogger and MP3Tag which also includes MM5 that support extended Tags (eg. non-standard, application specific tags that are complaint to tagging format of file type) show it normally but not as native feature (eg. 3/5 stars) but as like you pointed "Default =153". So to conclude regarding Rating MM5 do support H2_Rating as an extended tag and you can easily change and edit it in track properties -> custom tab, but it is not planned to be supported natively, but as extended tags are read and recognized in MM5 it is possible that some plugin developer pick that up and add support for it.

To give better observation in the issue and analyze of Helium tagging support here is what I personally think as a fact all H2 named tags are clearly stated that they are Helium Custom tags and not defacto standard and intended to be used in Helium app, while not obligated by any third app to make it supported in any way, even Helium for example itself support MediaMonkey ("Songs-DB_Custom" Tags). Further in analyzing I have found that beside own Rating implementation (which by the looks is more to RIFF Standard used by Windows Media Player than actual adopted standard by many apps and explains range 0-255) it also uses own implementation for Multiple artist list (TAG name H2_MULTIPLE_ARTISTS) instead of following standards adopted by many other apps.

So if you want to have support for such extended tags I would suggest that you move to MediaMonkey 5 in order to still support and use your preferred apps and not wanting to fully switch.

Please note that I have not tested all the apps and that if you find any other applications that NATIVELY (not thru extended tags support) support H2_Rating please let us know and we will gladly reconsider and analyze broad usage of the tag and evaluate what benefits we can have of implementing it natively.
Best regards,
Peke
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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Re: where is metadata (esp ratings) stored for flac files? can they be stored in the file itself?

Post by MacGuyver »

Thank you for these details. I was not aware of all this information. I agree with your response.

I wish both programs used compatible systems because I use both in my workflow and I didn't realize until today that FLAC ratings tags in Helium are not native and thus not compatible with MM5. But I can't argue with any of your points.

Thank you for taking the time to look into this.
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Re: where is metadata (esp ratings) stored for flac files? can they be stored in the file itself?

Post by Peke »

Hi,
If you have nay basic knowledge of Java Script, we will be glad to help you make small one to address the problem.

0-255 Rating system has its own problems too and were addressed by us in teh past so that it can be seen correctly in most of the apps. See HERE a brief descriptions on issues we needed to coupe with, but it is solvable and looks like Helium decided to ignore RATING tag which can be easily translated to their own format on-fly, but we are not Helium developers.

I do not want to sound to arrogant, but if you share your workflow on tagging files and need for such workflow, we can most likely find better solution withing MediaMonkey itself. Which will make your life bit easier by not switching thru several apps and use only MediaMonkey.

Note that with link above you can easily manually (for now) change H2_Rating tag in MM5 and keep compatibility.

You got me intrigued and it was a pleasure doing some research.
Best regards,
Peke
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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