BUGS... Non-Lyric Tags changed when Auto-Updating Lyrics...

by **Not_tech_savy** » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:00 pm

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:10 pm

I'm using 2511, get that if you don't have it already.

Hey Lee, I have a theory on auto-tag. I know you just want lyrics but I think you need it to search for a couple other fields for it to accurately and quickly pull lyrics.
So in auto-tag options menu remove Songcoleta and Seek a Lyric (i think those sites are dead), then in tags to search for in this order do Title, Album, Lyrics.
My tags to search for looks like this Title,Album,Date,Artist,Disc #,Track #,Lyrics and I believe changing that order affects speed and accuracy (Idk why or if its in my head

). You may be able to just do title, album, and lyrics it might work better if you set it up how mine is but that's a lot more stuff you'd have to change back if it's wrong
(Again I know it's just lyrics you want, but the auto-tag Database may have the wrong info, even though yours is right)

- Side Note -
- Could you try a batch of 100 songs the way I suggested and let me know if that worked better?
-- (OMDB is for video tags)

- Uncheck the prefer faster method (You're tags may be right, but if the DB is wrong it may need the extra help)
--- And Idk if it only fingerprints if title is missing. Just trying to make auto-tag as accurate as possible. The way I read it, I believe prefer faster method goes off your tags and should in theory only fill in what's missing, and unchecking that it will go ahead and check and change the fields you want to look up even if they have tags already. (apparently every one is confused on how auto tag works though sooo idk)

- If it changes to wrong tags click the song title and click search via fingerprint (even if you uncheck the prefer faster method, about 70% of the time fingerprinting title of the song will change all info too or back to the correct one. Keep an eye on all of your part 2's, Live, and Remixes, it loves changing those.) (I watch the status and says its fingerprinting, and yet I can also click title have that search by fingerprint {{only after it has completed looking up all other tags or it'll freeze}} and it brings up different info. So maybe after initial FP, running it again will have it start off with new tags which leads it in a different direction, Idk.)
-- Also if you click a blue changed tag and change back to old, it doesn't always change the rest of the tags back as well. Keep an eye out for that. Oh and I think even changing back to old if you don't do it via FP it'll keep the wrong lyrics. again idk some times it does some times it doesn't.

- Maybe change confidence percentage thing to 85% but the higher you set it the more time it takes looking for correct info. (Mine is 75% but I was messing with MM DB settings and managed to reset all of my tags.)

-Don't use the addon by Fizzjob It'll add a couple lines then add Web address instead of lyrics. Hopefully he fixes that soon.

-I believe the auto-tag info comes from sites not run by the MM guys, and the databases are user submitted info. So accuracy can be iffy.

-A good amount of my mainstream stuff also doesn't get lyrics added which seems weird but I'd rather have nothing then it be wrong.
- Here's an example of some lyrics I got off Auto-tag -
((This whole tune is full of whispering and background vocals...If you can make
them out, and they're right...I may just send you a small cash reward.)
Ad mala patrata haec sunt theatra parata.
(bes...))
- That's it dude just gave up lol

- Idk about other programs or mp3tag. but I've noticed playing a song can bring up lyrics when auto tag will not. I don't believe that changes other tags. If all else fails sort by no lyrics, throw on a movie, press play on your music hit next song (for me every 5 seconds, depending on how good your internet is) and add your lyrics that way.

And Lee I understand how frustrating it is having things set up perfectly, you try something and now its all wrong. I suggest having multiple back ups. after scouring your MM info and making sure its all correct, update your music folder. Have one or two backups on an external hard drive that remains untouched. and if you opt for having two on extHD update the second one maybe yearly.
I misunderstood what volume leveling does and didn't realize for several months what I had done and was updating my 1 backup around the same time and apparently there's no way too tell what has been leveled. That's the lesson I learned lol

by **leeuniverse** » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:10 pm

Barry4679 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:07 am
leeuniverse wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:39 am BTW, what do you think about what I said above to Lowlander?
I have learnt more about AutoTag thanks to your posts.
I had not used it much because I set tags as I want when I rip albums, and any changes I want, I do individually manually. Am not keen a batch process grinding though my tags. The big red warning at the top of here was enough to put me off.

Like you I assumed that the the Auto-Tagging>Metadata settings in Tools>options>Library>MetadataLookup controlled what would be written to your tracks. And I still think that was a reasonable assumption.

In my case I don't use external tools to tag my tracks. This means that my starting point is the my database tags are identical to my track tags. So the way that Auto-tag is implemented would never have impacted me. My guess is that this would be the case for the majority of MM users.

I don't know why they implemented the write-to-tracks phase of Auto-tag to operate outside of the option settings.

I have mixed feelings about it TBH:
OTOH for someone like me if is good that MM is taking every opportunity to keep my database and track tags in synch

But for someone like you it has been destructive.
I do think that you have been letdown by the documentation, and the complete lack of clarity in the UI. And I do think that it is an important issue. I gave some suggestions, but I don't know whether will attend to it.

The issue would have avoided for you if you has rescanned your tracks before using Auto-Tag, or if you were using the MM5 Monitor facility to auto-detect and auto-sync itself to changes made by external tools like Picard and mp3Tag ... But you didn't know that, and neither would anyone else looking at the documentation or UI.

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:39 am Also, I'm confused about something else you've said many times, about that panel in which auto-tag is running.
It's "already" running when that panel opens up for me... Sure, there's the Options button there also, but it's going already before you can even touch that button. Are you in a different panel?
I wrote that when I assumed that those settings were going to be used by the write-back-to-tracks phase.
This turned out to be wrong.

Thank you for your input and support Barry....

And everything you said is entirely correct about the issues, my experience, frustrations, feelings, etc.
I could not have expected they didn't allow "manual" control over our tags, that an area of Settings which seems entirely designed to prevent the automatic overriding of Tags as WE CHOOSE, doesn't even do that, and I still have no clue its purpose then, because they say that's what it's supposed to do, but then ultimately it "doesn't" do that because on "Save" ALL tags are overwritten per what's contained in their database.

I totally get having a music player in which people can use and not care about tags, but this is really bad for those of us who DO care about our tags, and might want to use "some" auto-functions, like to help add Cover Art, or Lyrics, or add any other tag. Nobody is saying MM shouldn't do what it's currently doing, but that us manual editing individuals should have some PROTECTION. Our Tags aren't being protected. We should be able to choose what's overwritten. This is BASIC to me, and blows my mind MM operated like this.

Anyway, thanks again, you've perfectly summarized the issues...

by **Barry4679** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:07 am

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:39 am BTW, what do you think about what I said above to Lowlander?

I have learnt more about AutoTag thanks to your posts.
I had not used it much because I set tags as I want when I rip albums, and any changes I want, I do individually manually. Am not keen a batch process grinding though my tags. The big red warning at the top of here was enough to put me off.

Like you I assumed that the the Auto-Tagging>Metadata settings in Tools>options>Library>MetadataLookup controlled what would be written to your tracks. And I still think that was a reasonable assumption.

In my case I don't use external tools to tag my tracks. This means that my starting point is the my database tags are identical to my track tags. So the way that Auto-tag is implemented would never have impacted me. My guess is that this would be the case for the majority of MM users.

I don't know why they implemented the write-to-tracks phase of Auto-tag to operate outside of the option settings.

I have mixed feelings about it TBH:

OTOH for someone like me if is good that MM is taking every opportunity to keep my database and track tags in synch

But for someone like you it has been destructive.

I do think that you have been letdown by the documentation, and the complete lack of clarity in the UI. And I do think that it is an important issue. I gave some suggestions, but I don't know whether will attend to it.

The issue would have avoided for you if you has rescanned your tracks before using Auto-Tag, or if you were using the MM5 Monitor facility to auto-detect and auto-sync itself to changes made by external tools like Picard and mp3Tag ... But you didn't know that, and neither would anyone else looking at the documentation or UI.

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:39 am Also, I'm confused about something else you've said many times, about that panel in which auto-tag is running.
It's "already" running when that panel opens up for me... Sure, there's the Options button there also, but it's going already before you can even touch that button. Are you in a different panel?

I wrote that when I assumed that those settings were going to be used by the write-back-to-tracks phase.
This turned out to be wrong.

by **leeuniverse** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:39 am

Barry4679 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:47 am
leeuniverse wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:35 pm Also, the bug Barry reported, seems like a "feature" to me, because according to him the "way" he was doing it, MediaMonkey was actually doing exactly what I was wanting and it should have been, ONLY updating the Lyrics Tag, not touching others.
Looks like I did not explain the "bug" properly, and have confused you.

The panel where you trigger and work with Auto Tag, has a button which allows you to change Auto-Tag parameters before it runs. The "bug" was that Auto-tag was ignoring any setting changes that you made for the current run.
i.e. the setting changes were made, but not used for the first run.

I don't that you would have appreciated that as a feature.

Yep, definitely would not be a feature I would want...
BTW, what do you think about what I said above to Lowlander?

Also, I'm confused about something else you've said many times, about that panel in which auto-tag is running.
It's "already" running when that panel opens up for me... Sure, there's the Options button there also, but it's going already before you can even touch that button. Are you in a different panel?

by **leeuniverse** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:36 am

Lowlander wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:49 pm 1) As indicated previously. Auto-Tag settings affect which tags Auto-Tag looks up. It will only lookup (and change) the selected tags. This is independent from how MediaMonkey writes tags when you make a tag changes. Then it does rewrite all tags with the database value, no matter if you changed 1 or many tags. Generally the database values should already be the same as the files tags, thus no actual changes (other than where tags were written differently than MediaMonkey writes them) would occur for most users, other than the tag(s) that Auto-Tag looked up.

First, appreciate you all trying to hash this out with me...

Second, what the flying freeky??? This is exactly where I'm having a problem.
You state:

Auto-Tag settings affect which tags Auto-Tag looks up. It will only lookup (and change) the selected tags. This is independent from how MediaMonkey writes tags when you make a tag changes.

Now, do you not see that the above statement is entirely "contradictory" to the below statement?

Then it does rewrite all tags with the database value, no matter if you changed 1 or many tags.

You can't look up and ONLY change certain tags, if those rules are then IGNORED and ALL tags are overwritten according to the database, as you've said previously upon save???
I mean, I do not understand what you are doing here...? It makes no sense whatsoever...

I get having the ability for peoples tags to be ALL AUTO for those who like that, run and forget, not caring about what's in your tags. I get it.
However, a LOT of people "edit" their tags, their images for various reasons I'm sure you're well aware of.
Thus, that is what those particular settings are SUPPOSED to do.... Allowing you to "choose" what get's auto-updated, and what doesn't. Like me all along, I was just wanting to update Lyrics, instead, the program updated Lyrics and then also decided to update whatever OTHER tags it wanted to, like you said, per your database.

Nooooo....!!!! You can't have a program like this work like that. Yes, have a Setting for those who want ALL Auto, but you should also have separate settings which are "selective", that we "choose" what's auto and what's not. Again, what's even the point of those Settings that allows us to choose what's updated if the rules aren't even enforced, as I showed above, they end up IGNORED. That doesn't even make sense???

NONE of this makes sense, and it makes no sense that you would override your customer's "manual" set Tags without their permission? I mean, let me give you one of MANY scenarios... Say your database currently doesn't have a bunch of tags. A person manually edits all their tags and images, to all nice. Then one day, your database has information, and then just OVERWRITES all their work. What about information that isn't accurate? What if there are tags people don't want within their music files? I mean do you not understand what I'm saying here...? This is a SERIOUS problem that needs to be fixed.

You MUST give people the "options", to enforce the rules they set for what Tags they want to update and don't want to have updated/changed. That's the whole purpose of that section, yet it's "overridden" by your database, forcing the saving of tag information that you DID NOT want touched.

Anyway, I don't know what else I can say or how I can say it... This is a big problem, and I'm amazed nobody has complained about it yet. You DON'T OVERWRITE PEOPLES TAGS unless they want them to be.

Sorry for my passion, it's just had I not had a backup that wasn't "fully" touched, I would have lost a couple 100 MORE HOURS of time having to redo all my files. This was NOT a happy experience at all... A customer should not have had to have gone through this.

by **Barry4679** » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:47 am

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:35 pm Also, the bug Barry reported, seems like a "feature" to me, because according to him the "way" he was doing it, MediaMonkey was actually doing exactly what I was wanting and it should have been, ONLY updating the Lyrics Tag, not touching others.

Looks like I did not explain the "bug" properly, and have confused you.

The panel where you trigger and work with Auto Tag, has a button which allows you to change Auto-Tag parameters before it runs. The "bug" was that Auto-tag was ignoring any setting changes that you made for the current run.
i.e. the setting changes were made, but not used for the first run.

I don't that you would have appreciated that as a feature.

by **Lowlander** » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:49 pm

1) As indicated previously. Auto-Tag settings affect which tags Auto-Tag looks up. It will only lookup (and change) the selected tags. This is independent from how MediaMonkey writes tags when you make a tag changes. Then it does rewrite all tags with the database value, no matter if you changed 1 or many tags. Generally the database values should already be the same as the files tags, thus no actual changes (other than where tags were written differently than MediaMonkey writes them) would occur for most users, other than the tag(s) that Auto-Tag looked up.

3) As indicated you can use Auto-Organize Files to move files elsewhere: https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/WebHel ... enames/5.0
However as you can create a Collection or AutoPlaylist of files without Lyrics there is no need to move the files to have separate access to them within MediaMonkey. Use whatever works best in your work flow.

by **leeuniverse** » Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:35 pm

Lowlander wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:45 am
leeuniverse wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:59 pm1. The ability to "Select" what Tags are either "updated" and/or "overwritten" in your files when you use Auto-Tag...
As being discussed here, that's already the case. If you can reproduce that Auto-Tag retrieves other tags than those selected (besides the bug already reported) then please capture it in a debug log (step 4b) and attach it to a Support Ticket.

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:59 pm2. In the "Files to Edit" menu we need the option to show files with "Missing Lyrics"
You can create this with same experience with an AutoPlaylist with Criteria Lyrics is unknown.

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:59 pm3. Be able to Copy/Move the files that are missing the tag
Don't know this feature, so I don't know what it exactly does. However you can use Auto-Organize Files or Auto-Organize to move files.

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:59 pm4. Be able to right-click and Search for Lyrics on Google
Don't know if this helps with this: https://www.mediamonkey.com/addons/brow ... how-links/

1. Several people and I think including you have already told me that MediaMonkey doesn't have the ability to select what tags you want and don't want to have updated?
They've said that when you "save" the file MediaMonkey will update ALL Tags according to the database.

Though, they haven't actually said what that section really does then if it doesn't do what it seems to have been designed for?
That's what this entire thread is about.

2. Okay, thanks.

3. So, what this means is in MusicBee you list the files for example that have no lyrics tags.
You then select the files, right-click I think it was, and you can select Copy or Move to actually cause those files to be copied/moved to a particular directory, so you can work on them separately. It can be a really useful function.

4. Could be useful... But I'm talking about a Link that will specifically do a Google search for lyrics, the search is formatted that way automatically.
The way it works is you select and right-click a file go to Tags/Update Lyrics, a box will pop-up, which shows you the program will search the various lyrics website according to what's listed in the program (like MediaMonkey also does something similar), but then there's a "checkbox" below in which you can select to "do a Google search" for the Lyrics if the general lyrics search didn't find anything. It will just automatically pop-up doing a search in google after the job.

-----

Anyway, my biggest problem here is that the Metadata Auto-Lookup options page when changed accordingly didn't work like I thought. MediaMonkey didn't ignore the tags I removed, and only edit the Lyrics Tag as I selected, but it also updated many of my other tags, specifically ruining a couple 1,000 songs and their tags I've worked on after spending 100's of hours on them making them perfect.

So, the program did the very thing entirely on its OWN that I was trying to prevent.
THEN I was told by several people that MediaMonkey does NOT have the ability to set what tags it ignores, it just updates ALL per its database on saving the tags you're actually trying to edit, which flabbergasted me.

Also, the bug Barry reported, seems like a "feature" to me, because according to him the "way" he was doing it, MediaMonkey was actually doing exactly what I was wanting and it should have been, ONLY updating the Lyrics Tag, not touching others.

So I don't know, this is all messed up... I just thank heavens that I had a "backup" which was only "partially" edited by MediaMonkey, so I only have to fix "some" things, though still going through every file checking its tags to make sure nothing's messed up, and that's going to be at least another 100 hours of work.

I would also like to point out that MusicBee has worked fine continuing to update my files.
You want to update only Lyrics, you just right-click and select the option to do a search for lyrics and auto-update. Also, in their Settings, you select what Tags you want to be auto-updated either in the background and I think with the auto-tagger function.
So, MediaMonkey has been an extreme disappointment...

Not having features is one thing, actually "purposefully" destroying people's existing tags is unacceptable, especially when a person thought they were preventing just that, and trusting the program works as expected.

by **Lowlander** » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:45 am

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:59 pm1. The ability to "Select" what Tags are either "updated" and/or "overwritten" in your files when you use Auto-Tag...

As being discussed here, that's already the case. If you can reproduce that Auto-Tag retrieves other tags than those selected (besides the bug already reported) then please capture it in a debug log (step 4b) and attach it to a Support Ticket.

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:59 pm2. In the "Files to Edit" menu we need the option to show files with "Missing Lyrics"

You can create this with same experience with an AutoPlaylist with Criteria Lyrics is unknown.

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:59 pm3. Be able to Copy/Move the files that are missing the tag

Don't know this feature, so I don't know what it exactly does. However you can use Auto-Organize Files or Auto-Organize to move files.

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:59 pm4. Be able to right-click and Search for Lyrics on Google

Don't know if this helps with this: https://www.mediamonkey.com/addons/brow ... how-links/

by **Barry4679** » Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:36 pm

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:12 pm Again, not how it's actually working... It doesn't stop the acquisition and applying of tags a person doesn't want.
You think it does, that's what the section looks like it should do, but like has been said, the program automatically updates ALL TAGS when you edit one, no matter what you've selected to prevent such in that section.

My working theory is:

that your MM database's view of your tags was out of sync with your actual track tags

this was caused by your mp3Tag and Picard updates, that MM was unaware on

the MM5 auto-sync did what you asked, ie only updated your MM database with Lyric info ... unless you were hit with that first-through bug discussed yesterday

and after MM5 had imported the Lyrics, it then "upgraded" your tracks with all of your old tags which had remained in your MM database

this wiped out some of your mp3Tag and Picard work

MM is designed with the assumption that your database tags == your track tags

this will be the case unless you use external tools to update your track tags .... is preferable that you use MM for tagging purpose

The optional Monitoring facility makes it easy and safe for people who want to use it external tools to update track tags. It watches nominated folders for any changes, and auto-imports these changes into the MM database.

Otherwise you have to rescan tracks that you have updated using external tools.

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:12 pm not sleeping almost at all working on these issues.

not the best plan ... but you already know that

by **leeuniverse** » Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:12 pm

Barry4679 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:59 pm Thanks for kind words.

The other way of looking at that is that it won't "touch" other tags if your tracks are in sync with your MM database.
And having your database be in sync with your tracks is a state of goodness, and is a design expectation of MediaMonkey.
The easy way to achieve that it is to allow MM to monitor your music folder(s).
See here.

The only issue is that's not how it's working. I've always put all of my files in the MM database since I've started trying to use MM a few days agos, not sleeping almost at all working on these issues.
Though, the only difference is I didn't allow "monitoring" of my files... but I wasn't changing them either to any issue when testing MM.

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:10 pm It is to stop MM from acquiring and applying Internet tags that don't want to receive.

Again, not how it's actually working... It doesn't stop the acquisition and applying of tags a person doesn't want.
You think it does, that's what the section looks like it should do, but like has been said, the program automatically updates ALL TAGS when you edit one, no matter what you've selected to prevent such in that section.

by **Barry4679** » Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:59 pm

Thanks for kind words.

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:10 pm I'm also perfectly fine with MM "auto syncing" with the database, so people don't have to think about their tags.
However, the issue is we really NEED the settings for the "exception to the rule", i.e. the cases in which we DON'T want other Tags touched, or in other words to be able to select what's touched, and what's overwritten. We need to be able to select these tags.

The other way of looking at that is that it won't "touch" other tags if your tracks are in sync with your MM database.
And having your database be in sync with your tracks is a state of goodness, and is a design expectation of MediaMonkey.
The easy way to achieve that it is to allow MM to monitor your music folder(s).
See here.

leeuniverse wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:10 pm Also, as you mentioned, the Metadata Lookup section in Options gives the entire impression that THAT is what those settings are there for, for you to "select" what tags you want to be touched and not touched when using Auto-Tag. I mean, I frankly don't get it. What does that section even do and is for if not that?

It is to stop MM from acquiring and applying Internet tags that don't want to receive.

by **leeuniverse** » Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:10 pm

Hey Barry...

I'm also perfectly fine with MM "auto syncing" with the database, so people don't have to think about their tags.
However, the issue is we really NEED the settings for the "exception to the rule", i.e. the cases in which we DON'T want other Tags touched, or in other words to be able to select what's touched, and what's overwritten. We need to be able to select these tags.

Also, as you mentioned, the Metadata Lookup section in Options gives the entire impression that THAT is what those settings are there for, for you to "select" what tags you want to be touched and not touched when using Auto-Tag. I mean, I frankly don't get it. What does that section even do and is for if not that?

Anyway, thanks for fleshing this all out... I've created a new post requesting the feature in question, as well as another I noticed I'll be also needing to update Lyrics. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=100296

Thanks again...

by **leeuniverse** » Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:59 pm

First, I want to say I'm sorry for coming on strong with my recent complaints, but this has been serious for me, and what should be a BASIC feature in my mind as not existing, which ended up causing 100's of files being broke and now having to go through every single one of some 3,500 files to fix and verify the data, as well the features I "thought" were the features in question weren't (and I still don't know what they are for, meaning the Metadata Lookup section in options in which you can supposedly "select" what data Auto-Tag works with) was a big frustration.

In other words, that section didn't do what it seemed to be setup to do, i.e. controlling what tags are touched by autotagger.

Anyway, there are two features I'm needing to do the essential things I need, being basic to simply get my files updated...

1. The ability to "Select" what Tags are either "updated" and/or "overwritten" in your files when you use Auto-Tag...

2. In the "Files to Edit" menu we need the option to show files with "Missing Lyrics"... Even better, it would be good if there was a section in Options in which we could "select" what options we added to that menu as files to edit. MusicBee for example has this feature to sort files that have missing lyrics for easy edit.

So, there could be default options similar to how we currently have, and then we can "add or remove" options from that section. In other words, we should be able to "edit" whatever Tag etc. we want, having it listed to make them easy to edit.

3. Be able to Copy/Move the files that are missing the tag for example, to a new folder, so they can be individually edited if need be outside of the program. MusicBee has this feature as an example.

4. Be able to right-click and Search for Lyrics on Google or otherwise for a particular song (maybe it could be a button in Property's so we are there to manually edit the lyrics tag just like you have a "Search Button" in the Lyrics Tab of properties which already searches the lyrics websites?). MusicBee also has the "web search" for lyrics feature as an example, and it works nice....

Actually, the way they do it which would be best... is when you're searching for the Lyrics with the various websites, you can check a "checkbox" and ONLY if there is nothing found at the websites, it then "automatically" pops up your browser with a Google Lyric Web Search... So, this would actually be the best implementation if you could do it.

Anyway, these are primary features still missing from MediaMonkey, for me someone simply coming in and trying to manage/update my MP3 collection, so it would be helpful if these could be added. I'm coming at this as an average Joe, simply needing things to work and do what's basic needed.

You've done amazing as far as features otherwise, and I AM grateful... But as the program currently is, I'm likely going to have to use "MusicBee" which isn't even close to updated and full of features, as well as HumanMedia Lyrics Finder to update my Lyrics (which I've already done) Though, used both MM and Lyrics Finder since it's already too late, many of my files being destroyed, so still have to edit them. Each finds Lyrics the other doesn't.

Anyway, thank you, would be great if I could see these features soon... I plan on adding even more music to my collection, and I really need things working as they should by default. Thanks

(p.s., there may be other needed features, but these are the big important things I've noticed to get the essential work done with my files.)

by **Barry4679** » Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:51 pm

Lowlander wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:34 am Barry misunderstood.

I don't think so. I understood everything you wrote.
It was easy because you didn't write much that 1st time.

Lowlander wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:34 am When MediaMonkey tags any tag it always writes all database values to the tag. So if you're just modifying Lyrics then all tags are rewritten. This is why date is also rewritten. For maximum compatibility MediaMonkey writes it the default method for MP3, but this can be changed by the user. The values written are those in the MediaMonkey database.
Perhaps Infer file properties (disable under Tools > Options > Library) had inferred tags from the folder/filename? This would then be written to the files anytime you change any tag.

The situation is much clearer now. Thanks for the explanation.

So, other than the 1st time through bug, the only exposure is:

user has tracks indexed by MM database

user changes some tags via an external tool

user then uses MM5 Auto-tag, for some selected tracks, to import a tag set which they can limit

MM5 will update the database with just that limited tag set, from the Internet, after user review and approval of any changes

and then MM5 automatically syncs ALL tags in the track selection; ie. from database -> the actual tracks

===> the tag changes made in step #2 have been overwritten

This is As Designed. The user needs to know that if they make tag changes to their tracks using some external tool. they need to synch their database by either having MM monitor there track locations for any external changes, or they need to Add/ReScan their media locations to inform MM of the changes.

I have some comments:

it seems unexpected and undocumented and unrequired that MM5 would refresh ALL tags to the database when the Users has asked for update to a limited tags set ...
- it is "unrequired" because there is a function for this exact purpose (Update Tags)
- it is "unexpected" because it is unnecessary, and the comment that the only documentation makes on the subject is "[MediaMonkey] allows you to set which tags are updated by Auto-Tag for Audio files and Video files." ... and the UI clearly creates this expectation also
On balance I don't think that it is bad thing that MediaMonkey takes every opportunity to keep music tracks in sync with database|ui values ... Nor do I think that it is unreasonable that the user be held responsible for advising MM of any changes they make via an external tool ... but I do think that the documentation lets them down:
- in the Basic Concepts section of the documentation there should be a clear topic explaining the importance of informing MM of any external changes, and illustrating the two ways to achieve this ... it should be towards the front, before that section descends into the existing techno-babble
- the Auto... tools sections of the manual should advise the user to bring their MM db up to date first, if there has been any important track tag alterations by an external tool
- and most importantly the UI should display this warning also

BUGS... Non-Lyric Tags changed when Auto-Updating Lyrics...

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Re: BUGS... Non-Lyric Tags changed when Auto-Updating Lyrics...

Four needed FEATURES after considerable testing...

Re: BUGS... Non-Lyric Tags changed when Auto-Updating Lyrics...