Where best to find help?

[Jim Kelly]

Yep - a serious question! Where best to first look for MM5 help?
Not just for my needs, and leaving myself wide open for criticisms! but for the good of others lurking about who might be feeling the same frustrations as I am.

I seem to be having trouble finding answers to some really basic questions.
Is there a 'Tutorial' and/or a 'Getting Started Guide' for MM5?

Is there a conventional help system akin to the Windows Fn1 key system (ie works by detecting where your focus currently is)?

As a means of teaching us the process of self-help, here are a few examples. Where are we expected to be able to find the answers to these somewhat obvious questions?:

EG-1: How can I remove the right hand panes that pop onto my views but I usually need the maximum display width? Surely a cross 'x' should be at their top right hand corners?

EG-2: Where can I set the drop-down list-order of possible values for (eg) "Tempo" so that the choices fall in a logical order [not alphanumeric]. I am sure I could do this in MM4.

EG-3: How can I best get a more comprehensive amount of track info onto the 'Player' window? The default view is very spartan! Do I need to experiment with skins to get things like this?

EG-4: The 'Column Filter' is very handy, indeed essential at times, BUT it is often not available to choose in the list of 'View elements'. How else can it be turned on/off?

EG-5: Love the AutoPlaylist functionality! When selecting the 'sort order' of files in an AutoPlaylist you see "Random Album (auto-refresh)". Sounds interesting but the phrase does not imply anything for certain (is it akin to "shuffle" where each track is played once before any tracks are played again)? There are no tool-tips to help at this point, and my various searches yield nothing! Where are such things explained?

Before kindly responding, remember that my purpose for choosing these examples is (not just because I really want the answers!) to guide myself and others into **self-helping** before posting a question (or enhancement idea) that has an obvious answer if only we knew where to look.

Thanks in anticipation,
Sincerely,
Jim Kelly

PS: I am most impressed by the professional way this forum is being managed and am mindful of the fact that it should be treasured by us all and part of that is a heartfelt need to avoid asking obvious questions! Thanks so much to all the contributors and moderators.
Jim

[Lowlander]

Yes, F1 works and takes you to the specific help. https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/index. ... ontent/5.0

1. Do you mean Playlist panel when adding a file to a Playlist? Or the Right panel itself which can be disabled from View in the Main Menu.

2. Not possible, however there is auto-complete.

3. Tools > Options > Playback Rules allows you to set what file info is shown using Masks as Track summary.

4. Then it's not available. When specifically are you missing it?

5. Auto-Refresh means that each time you call the AutoPlaylist you get a different result.

[Jim Kelly]

0. Try editing an autoplaylist and pressing Fn1 to get guidlines and examples of clever use of this great feature [Fn1 takes me to Filelisting]

1. The difficulties are well discussed here viewtopic.php?p=506835#p506835

2. Now that "Not possible" is very sad.
My database has a very complex array of terms used for Tempo, Mood, Occassion, etc using very descriptive words. By moving the terms in the list boxes to their logical progression makes it very easy to know how to adjust the tempo, mood or intrusivenees (occassion) of the music. This worked very well in MM4 (via the respective Node iirc).
Is it an oversight in MM5, or a bug, or just not yet implemented?
I thought of adding a single number or letter as the first character to workaround this dilemma - but that looks very clumsy - detracting from the ease of use that I had reached. And besides, I can see no way to easily adjust the whole database as many of these fields use multiple keywords separated by ';' which works well but if I have entered five 'Occassions' for a track I am very unlikely to have entered them in the same order (etc) on different days/eras.

On a similar subject, in the APList editor, of say 'Occassion', I can tick many boxes which is great (would be much better if they were in my logical order though) and these are converted to a string once you close that dropdown list. **Can you please allow us to edit, copy, and paste such strings so that they can be pasted into other APL?**

Will stop now.
I was hoping to have you show us where to find the answers. Mostly to save you work, but also so that I can get immediate answers where there is no Internet.

Thanks again.
I am looking forward to seeing recommendations following my points elaborated here.

Best regards,
Jim Kelly

[Lowlander]

1. In that case please discuss in the existing thread.

2. Design choice, and it works like fields like Artist, Genre, etc.

[Jim Kelly]

Removing valuable functionality is NOT what should occur in a version upgrade, and certainly NOT what I expected from MediaMonkey.

[jiri]

2. Looks like an oversight to me, will check out what could be done...

Jiri

[Jim Kelly]

Thanks Jiri,
Very much appreciated

Jim Kelly

[Barry4679]

Not just for my needs, and leaving myself wide open for criticisms! but for the good of others lurking about who might be feeling the same frustrations as I am.

Will stop now.
I was hoping to have you show us where to find the answers. Mostly to save you work, but also so that I can get immediate answers where there is no Internet.
Thanks again.
I am looking forward to seeing recommendations following my points elaborated here.

Hi Jim,

Firstly I want to say that I agree with your frustration and disappointment about the lack of Quick Start and in-depth "How To" Guides for some of the complex MM5 deliverables. And the almost useless state of the index allowing discovery of the location of tips for key concepts.

I won't say more than that, because I have banged on about it so often here, and I think any more from me is counter-productive..
I do like MM5 a lot, and I think that it is probably a management problem.
I don't think you should worry about criticism. It is obvious that you have high regard for MediaMonkey.
The only danger that you are in, is some loss of enthusiasm, due to the crushing unearnt complacency and indifference in this matter, coming from MM.

EG-1: How can I remove the right hand panes that pop onto my views but I usually need the maximum display width? Surely a cross 'x' should be at their top right hand corners?

If you are talking about the left and right hand panels, they can be toggled off and on, using the buttons which look a bit like a piano, at the left and right edge of the Toolbar. The toggle is better than an x to close, because the panel is easy to toggle back on.

0. Try editing an autoplaylist and pressing Fn1 to get guidlines and examples of clever use of this great feature [Fn1 takes me to Filelisting]

I think that you have found a bug.
If you open the Auto-Tag facility, and press F1, you are taken here. This is more relevant than the FileListing page that you mention.

I was thinking that you must be on an old version, because that above is what I see.
But if I click the Help icon, that is on the Window title bar of the Auto_tag panel, and then go back to the Auto-tag panel and then press the F1 key, it does take me to the FileListing Help page.
Maybe that is what you saw?
It looks like a bug to me.

In MM5 the F1 contextual lookup of relevant help is generally good, and somewhat compensates for the truly crappy Help Search facility.
But whether the jumble of notes on many of the Help pages, are adequate, is a Horse of an entirely different colour IMO. YMMV.

[Rob_S]

It seems to me finding any program or app with good documentation these days is not easy.

I can understand that in a way because:

- They almost need one of the coders to write one, because only they fully understand it.
- Time and money is better spent improving the code than writing about it
- Finding anyone who can write clear consistent understandable manuals and knows the program may well be harder than finding coders
- The software interface is supposed to be somewhat self-explanatory, except when it isn't
- Most manuals tell you in sequence left to right what each menu item or button does, but not how to accomplish a task
- For each task there are so many nuances and personal preferences it becomes unwieldy like a humungous flowchart

etc, etc

A good forum is better than thousands of pages of manuals describing the obvious in great detail, and lacking the tidbits of knowledge we can find here.

[Jim Kelly]

Hi Barry and Rob, very nice to see your 'feeling your pain' responses - thanks!

- They almost need one of the coders to write one, because only they fully understand it.
- Time and money is better spent improving the code than writing about it
- Finding anyone who can write clear consistent understandable manuals and knows the program may well be harder than finding coders
- The software interface is supposed to be somewhat self-explanatory, except when it isn't
- Most manuals tell you in sequence left to right what each menu item or button does, but not how to accomplish a task
- For each task there are so many nuances and personal preferences it becomes unwieldy like a humungous flowchart

etc, etc

Agree with all of those points Rob.
There are many beautifully written explanations on some items for MM where a great deal of effort has gone into presentation and consideration for users at all levels.

I think if these portions were put together in a well recognised logical manner it would be a great start, with complex stuff hidden behind "More info" buttons to keep the reader's attention on perusing the guide for the missing bits of info to help learn whatever is needed at the time.

In my experience, the best way is for a newbee to be closely observed by the coder documentor as s/he is **silently** editing each finished document. Purpose is to observe where a newbee falls into an unexpected hole simply because they do not yet have enough 'prior knowledge'. These points are often easily fixed both in the code and backed up in the documentation BUT are very very hard for a coder to foresee because they know everything so very well. Too well! The chosen coder of course has to be quite special to resist showing/telling/teaching the newbee, to resist a scornful attitude, and to take pleasure in seeing the newbee react differently after the fixes have been attended to in a manner that ALL newbees will then benefit.

A good forum is better than thousands of pages of manuals describing the obvious in great detail, and lacking the tidbits of knowledge we can find here.

Exactly Rob.
Regardless, I do miss the days of 'Compuserve' where each subject also had a library to store attachments for timeless advice, examples, images, freebies, etc;
And another place where 'Sticky' documents were placed and gradually improved by members as a kind of perpetual reference. A bit like a structured FAQ.

These notions have largely disappeared in modern forums but I believe could be reinstated in a forum such as this. Certainly worthy of some thought?

The starting point would be to start with the Table of Contents, with a focus on a very logical order that is immediately encouraging for users of all levels. This needs to be done by an enthusiast who has a thorough understanding of the different ways that MM is used. This may be a useful top level structure itself, along with the portions that are essential knowledge for all users. I say this so it provides a way of moving great wads of specialist knowledge away from the view of a new user.

The only danger that you are in, is some loss of enthusiasm, due to the crushing unearnt complacency and indifference in this matter, coming from MM.

Yes Barry, I am struggling with that at the moment!
But if I see some of the issues that I can bring to the table being FIXED, then I will keep being an active contributor and user (after six or more years of not using MM at all - life got in the way).

EG-1: How can I remove the right hand panes that pop onto my views but I usually need the maximum display width? Surely a cross 'x' should be at their top right hand corners?

If you are talking about the left and right hand panels, they can be toggled off and on, using the buttons which look a bit like a piano, at the left and right edge of the Toolbar. The toggle is better than an x to close, because the panel is easy to toggle back on.
[/quote]
Yes I am.
The right hand panes that appear without being requested, indeed they are scrunched up to be illegible too.
BUT this might be easily fixed because today I stretched one wide open and there appeared an X !!! That X allowed me to instantly close its pane giving me the valuable horizontal pixels back. That X should be available at all times!!! Nothing wrong with the toggle idea too - there is plenty of ways, maybe a history of pains drop down? (Like the 'Previous-view'and Next-view' button dropdowns work).

Thanks again,

Jim Kelly,

[Lowlander]

You can widen the Playlist panel that open.

[Barry4679]

The right hand panes that appear without being requested, indeed they are scrunched up to be illegible too.
BUT this might be easily fixed because today I stretched one wide open and there appeared an X !!! That X allowed me to instantly close its pane giving me the valuable horizontal pixels back. That X should be available at all times!!! Nothing wrong with the toggle idea too - there is plenty of ways, maybe a history of pains drop down? (Like the 'Previous-view'and Next-view' button dropdowns work).

I am guessing that you are talking about the Playlist Editing panels.
These are new to MM5, and I think that they are a work in progress.
To be sure look at my MM5 here:

1. the Left Panel ... the Navigation Media Tree normally lives here. It can be toggled off|on by the Toolbar button that the arrow points to
2. The Main Panel .. this remains visible, ie it cannot be closed
3. A PlayList Editing panel. They don't appear without being requested A new one is opened whenever you edit a (non-auto) Playlist, They can be closed by the corner X icon. I say that they are a work in progress because I have seen posts here, where there is discussion about being able to suppress them from opening
4. The Right Panel. It has its own visibility toggle control. It normally contains the Preview and Playing panels

The contents of these panels can be configured via the View>layout menu.
Currently the playlist editing panels are not configurable.

Your original question was whether there are other repositories of MM info. It is quite a jumble, but there are also:

• this
• and this

- Most manuals tell you in sequence left to right what each menu item or button does, but not how to accomplish a task

Hi Rob,
I agree with much of what you said.

I agree that most manuals are pointless, tick the box, efforts, for the reason you describe.
Too much of the existing MM5 online help falls into this very category IMO.

But I don't think that all of your points are applicable to what was being proposed in this thread. I was not proposing a bloated Reference manual. I was proposing a Quick Start migration document, and some How To bulletins for some of the key MM5 deliverables .. those which are complex.

Example: MM5 Sync:

• now that I know how MM Sync works, it all seems rather obvious. But it was not how I found it initially
• I couldn't even get a good handle upon what MM5 Sync was intended for. ie. was it sync just for purposes of offsite backup?, or syncing a collection to another computer like a travelling laptop?, or for syncing a subset of a collection to mobile device?, or could it sync phone ratings and track plays and tag corrections back to MM5?
• there was too much complexity to work through, without an understanding of what it could achieve
• I now know that the answer to all those questions are YES. I would not have guessed that to be true
• I may not have guessed that it is simple to setup a sync which auto-transcodes large lossless tracks down to smaller mp3 files suitable for listening while travelling
• And what is the new sync to cloud locations for? .. I can sync my tracks and playlists to Dropbox, and use MMA to play stream from my Dropbox library? ... I don't know.
• Aren't they shooting themselves in the foot by not promoting all that with a How To document which starts of with the clear description of the benefits, and then walks through the steps involved in setting up a simple case achieving at least some the major points. It seems plain obvious to me.

Example: migration to MM5 navigation and Searching facilities

• MM5 significantly improved navigation and searching and filtering IMO ... but they also wrecked it for many, by making it more complex and non-standard and under-documented
• there is plenty of evidence for that in this forum
• initially the impression is that it is complex and foreign and inconsistent ... what is relatively hidden, is that it is really good
• it needs a How To bulletin IMO, along the lines of my Sync example
• they are like the proverbial frog in the pot that is being heated ... they have forgotten just how much complexity and alternate controls that they have jammed in there

- They almost need one of the coders to write one, because only they fully understand it.

Yes, of course the Developers should be part of the documentation effort.
And the documentation should go through Beta Test.
Given that MM has the task in a separate silo, it is creditworthy that it is not worse than it is.

[Jim Kelly]

Great post thanks Barry4679
(Jim here),

Much of what you have written could go straight into a Quick Start Guide! Very helpful and clear.

Thanks for the images and links too.
Making things consistent or perhaps comprehensive (multiple ways of doing things being consistently catered for) certainly needs a quality-control eye to go over it all, imo. EG: The v Dropbox symbol should be present wherever a drop box is available (missing at the 'Previous view' and 'Next view' arrow-icons. These are very handy but I had not discovered the history available until after much frustration).

I was puzzled by the missing 'x' that I have been confounded by all along (from the panels that pop open when one edits a standard playlist - thanks for explaining that to us Barry). Turns out that they have been overwritten by my Playlist Names!! My urge was to always narrow those pesky panels - which simply made the issue worse. And sadly, these columns/panes/panels are NOT presented in Tools > Options> Layout> Right Panel! I had looked there, becoming even more confused because it looks like a nice tidy interface.

Best wishes,

Jim Kelly