volume levelling confused with file monitoring [#5533]
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volume levelling confused with file monitoring [#5533]
Hello,
I have found that some of my music files seem to be at odd volumes compared to others.
The volumes are analyzed and level playback volume is turned on, however, some of the tracks seem to be analyzed wrong and if I analyze them again manually it fixes the problem.
Here is what I 'suspect' is the problem:
I have "automatically analyze volume of un-analyzed tracks" turned on and I have "file monitor on"
When I have MM running and I copy an album into a monitored directory, it takes a second or two to copy.
This means that when MM starts analyzing the album, it's only noticed 2 or 3 of the tracks. Once it finishes analyzing those songs, it then notices the rest of the album and analyzes them.
Could this be causing the album volume for between those to be different?
Also, when ripping a cd, volume analysis starts as soon as the first tracks has been ripped. Shouldn't this delay until the whole cd has been ripped before starting the volume analysis? - this would prevent slowing down the ripping, but also prevent a problem like that mentioned above.
Dale.
I have found that some of my music files seem to be at odd volumes compared to others.
The volumes are analyzed and level playback volume is turned on, however, some of the tracks seem to be analyzed wrong and if I analyze them again manually it fixes the problem.
Here is what I 'suspect' is the problem:
I have "automatically analyze volume of un-analyzed tracks" turned on and I have "file monitor on"
When I have MM running and I copy an album into a monitored directory, it takes a second or two to copy.
This means that when MM starts analyzing the album, it's only noticed 2 or 3 of the tracks. Once it finishes analyzing those songs, it then notices the rest of the album and analyzes them.
Could this be causing the album volume for between those to be different?
Also, when ripping a cd, volume analysis starts as soon as the first tracks has been ripped. Shouldn't this delay until the whole cd has been ripped before starting the volume analysis? - this would prevent slowing down the ripping, but also prevent a problem like that mentioned above.
Dale.
Product Designer & Indie Developer.
Building at the intersection of motion, art, and code.
Find me on twitter and all the other ones here.
Building at the intersection of motion, art, and code.
Find me on twitter and all the other ones here.
Re: volume levelling confused with file monitoring
Dale,
I tested this out and couldn't replicate the problem you describe. Were you copying from a networked location? (perhaps this was so slow that analysis completed before some tracks had copied?).
Anyone else observing this behavior?
-Rusty
I tested this out and couldn't replicate the problem you describe. Were you copying from a networked location? (perhaps this was so slow that analysis completed before some tracks had copied?).
Anyone else observing this behavior?
-Rusty
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Re: volume levelling confused with file monitoring
I'm not sure. It's possible, but usually not, just between drives (so it's not instantaneous)
Dale.
Dale.
Product Designer & Indie Developer.
Building at the intersection of motion, art, and code.
Find me on twitter and all the other ones here.
Building at the intersection of motion, art, and code.
Find me on twitter and all the other ones here.
Re: volume levelling confused with file monitoring
Dale,
Could it be that you have tracks from an Album spread across multiple directories so that some are being analyzed at one time and others at another time?
Any other info would be helpful--I can't replicate this...
-Rusty
Could it be that you have tracks from an Album spread across multiple directories so that some are being analyzed at one time and others at another time?
Any other info would be helpful--I can't replicate this...
-Rusty
Re: volume levelling confused with file monitoring
Rusty, try copying an album of some FLAC or wave files (so they are larger than mp3) with no replay analysis to a monitored folder on an external drive, with auto-analyze on.
I've seen it happen many times, where I forgot to turn off auto-analyze, and I copy files to my external drive (usb2/firewire) from either network or another local drive, to my monitored working folder, where analysis will start on the first files before the file copy completes.
This results in the intial files being repeatedly analyzed as new tracks are copied across.
Another really easy way to reproduce is to rip a cd with a different program (use eac or foobar or dbpoweramp) to a monitored folder, MM auto-analyze will analyse each new file as they are ripped. Since it takes some time to rip each file, the first files will repeatedly analyzed as each new track is finished ripped.
I don't know of a good way to avoid this problem, except to disable auto-analyze until all tracks have been added (and tags updated if necessary), then re-enable auto-analyze.
I think a better way, would be for auto-analyze to only refresh after a certain period of time since a track was added to the library.
In other words, do not auto-analyze until last track added time + 30 minutes (or whatever time).
I've seen it happen many times, where I forgot to turn off auto-analyze, and I copy files to my external drive (usb2/firewire) from either network or another local drive, to my monitored working folder, where analysis will start on the first files before the file copy completes.
This results in the intial files being repeatedly analyzed as new tracks are copied across.
Another really easy way to reproduce is to rip a cd with a different program (use eac or foobar or dbpoweramp) to a monitored folder, MM auto-analyze will analyse each new file as they are ripped. Since it takes some time to rip each file, the first files will repeatedly analyzed as each new track is finished ripped.
I don't know of a good way to avoid this problem, except to disable auto-analyze until all tracks have been added (and tags updated if necessary), then re-enable auto-analyze.
I think a better way, would be for auto-analyze to only refresh after a certain period of time since a track was added to the library.
In other words, do not auto-analyze until last track added time + 30 minutes (or whatever time).
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Re: volume levelling confused with file monitoring
I'm seeing the same behavior. I have a thread in another section: http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =1&t=38429
I only move finished rips to the folder MM is monitoring.EDIT: I keep getting this behavior: I have a new album in my library (picked up by File Montior), MM displays "Analyzing..." and the album is then added to the library with the Volume and Album Volume columns filled in (correct values). But the songs continue to play at their initial volume until I right-click the songs and select "Analyze Volume". I'm now using build 1229.
Re: volume levelling confused with file monitoring
Thanks for the clarification. I was able to replicate the problem regarding multiple/unnecessary volume analysis iterations, however, I couldn't replicate the problem of erroneous volume analysis calculations.
Tracked at:
http://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=5533
-Rusty
Tracked at:
http://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=5533
-Rusty
Re: volume levelling confused with file monitoring [#5533]
In my case the calculated values are correct (and appear in their respective columns), but MM seems to ignore them on playback - the songs are played as if they weren't analyzed (usually much louder than the rest of the library). Once I do a manual "Analyze tracks" on those tracks MM plays them correctly.
EDIT: tried a clean install on another PC and the bug is still there, but I noticed something while testing that might prevent you from reproducing the bug. I'm using a folder with 3 tracks (mp3) that have no replaygain info in their tags. These files are located in my test folder (monitored by MM). Installed MM 3.0.7. All the files were analyzed correctly and playback volume was fine also. I then moved the folder to another location (not monitored by MM). I have "Update tags when editing properties" unchecked so the actual files are not modified by MM. The files are removed from the Library by the File Monitor. I copy them back and are picked up and Analyzed. Everything is ok, playback volume is fine. I then install the latest beta (1237). I do the same thing again, but I notice that the Track Volume column is filled in even before Auto-analyze tracks is done with them (this might have happened before with 3.0.7). Playback volume is still ok. So I move the folder again, use another program to convert the files to FLAC (from mp3) and put them in the same folder. I then move the folder (which now has 6 files instead of 3) to the monitored folder. This is when things go wrong: File Monitor picks them up, they get analyzed correctly, but at playback the volume is now too high. This applies to all the 6 files - mp3 and FLAC. Right-click - Analyze Volume and the playback volume is now ok for all 6 files.
Hope this helps!
EDIT: tried a clean install on another PC and the bug is still there, but I noticed something while testing that might prevent you from reproducing the bug. I'm using a folder with 3 tracks (mp3) that have no replaygain info in their tags. These files are located in my test folder (monitored by MM). Installed MM 3.0.7. All the files were analyzed correctly and playback volume was fine also. I then moved the folder to another location (not monitored by MM). I have "Update tags when editing properties" unchecked so the actual files are not modified by MM. The files are removed from the Library by the File Monitor. I copy them back and are picked up and Analyzed. Everything is ok, playback volume is fine. I then install the latest beta (1237). I do the same thing again, but I notice that the Track Volume column is filled in even before Auto-analyze tracks is done with them (this might have happened before with 3.0.7). Playback volume is still ok. So I move the folder again, use another program to convert the files to FLAC (from mp3) and put them in the same folder. I then move the folder (which now has 6 files instead of 3) to the monitored folder. This is when things go wrong: File Monitor picks them up, they get analyzed correctly, but at playback the volume is now too high. This applies to all the 6 files - mp3 and FLAC. Right-click - Analyze Volume and the playback volume is now ok for all 6 files.
Hope this helps!
Re: volume levelling confused with file monitoring [#5533]
Do you use Album volume or Track volume for playback leveling. If you're using album volume the issue might be that MediaMonkey recognizes that the album isn't leveled as now it has 3 extra unleveled songs. So despite that the MP3 tracks did have album level it doesn't apply as not all tracks on album have this value. Just a guess though.
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Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)
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Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)
Re: volume levelling confused with file monitoring [#5533]
Yes, I forgot to change that setting and now it seems like it's working, but at home I'm sure it's set to Track. I think I'll try a clean install at home. Is there anyway to keep playback statistics (I use AutoRateAccurate)?
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Re: volume levelling confused with file monitoring [#5533]
Just backup your database file: http://www.mediamonkey.com/support/inde ... ticleid=65florin wrote:Yes, I forgot to change that setting and now it seems like it's working, but at home I'm sure it's set to Track. I think I'll try a clean install at home. Is there anyway to keep playback statistics (I use AutoRateAccurate)?
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Re: volume levelling confused with file monitoring [#5533]
Nope, the bug is still there. I did a clean install (deleted everything related to MM) and with a clean slate I only set "Automatically analyze volume..." and set Level volume playback "per Track". Adding some music in the monitored folder triggers "Analyzing volume" every time, the Track & Album Volume columns are filled in correctly, but playback volume remains elevated - playback just ignores the values in the Track Volume column. It doesn't happen all the time, sometimes it just works, but I'd say only about 1/5 times. I did repeated testing (by removing the folder from the library, then adding it from Windows Explorer), trying to figure out some pattern but I wasn't able to find one.
I even disabled File Monitor and it seems they're not related. Manually adding the folder to the library (a few seconds after the file transfer completed) gets me the same behavior. After using Clear Library, and adding back the folders, again the same behavior.
I even disabled File Monitor and it seems they're not related. Manually adding the folder to the library (a few seconds after the file transfer completed) gets me the same behavior. After using Clear Library, and adding back the folders, again the same behavior.
Re: volume levelling confused with file monitoring [#5533]
florin,
If I understand correctly, then, you're saying that there's a bug with the Play > Level Playback Volume function.
Try disabling that function. Then play a track with a very high + or - db leveling coefficient. Then enable the function and see if there's a difference.
If you still see inconsistent behavior, could it be that you're using some input/output/dsp plugins that might be affecting volume?
-Rusty
If I understand correctly, then, you're saying that there's a bug with the Play > Level Playback Volume function.
Try disabling that function. Then play a track with a very high + or - db leveling coefficient. Then enable the function and see if there's a difference.
If you still see inconsistent behavior, could it be that you're using some input/output/dsp plugins that might be affecting volume?
-Rusty
Re: volume levelling confused with file monitoring [#5533]
Yes, that's correct, Volume Levelling doesn't work for newly added songs, but it seems to be related to the auto-analyze thing. If I right-click these song(s) and press Analyze Volume then the song(s) get analyzed once again and this time they are played back ok (although values in Track&Album Volume don't change).
I don't need to enable/disable the function to test this because I usually have a lot of rock music that is very loud and I can tell immediately when levelling isn't working. I have my sound volumes set to a comforting listening level, when levelling doesn't work it's pain to my ears.
I don't need to enable/disable the function to test this because I usually have a lot of rock music that is very loud and I can tell immediately when levelling isn't working. I have my sound volumes set to a comforting listening level, when levelling doesn't work it's pain to my ears.
Re: volume levelling confused with file monitoring [#5533]
florin,
I've tried, but I cannot replicate these problems. All the tracks in my environment that are auto-analyzed correctly play at leveled volume.
If possible, try to find _one_ track that has leveling information but consistently doesn't play at leveled volume. Confirm this by enabling/disabling the Level Playback Volume setting, and then send us a debug log of the bug occurring.
Thanks.
-Rusty
I've tried, but I cannot replicate these problems. All the tracks in my environment that are auto-analyzed correctly play at leveled volume.
If possible, try to find _one_ track that has leveling information but consistently doesn't play at leveled volume. Confirm this by enabling/disabling the Level Playback Volume setting, and then send us a debug log of the bug occurring.
Thanks.
-Rusty