MM Cloud

Any ideas about how to improve MediaMonkey? Let us know!

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wormywyrm
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:40 pm

Re: MM Cloud

Post by wormywyrm » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:42 am

wormywyrm wrote:I don't think MM needs to start its own cloud service any more than it should start its own portable MP3 player. But MM needs to embrace cloud one way or another: COMPATIBILITY.

Right now there is very little to no compatibility between media monkey and the popular cloud services: apple, google, amazon.

Just like mediamonkey has an easy way to move our playlists and music to our iPod, we are going to need a way to move our music to our cloud server.

Personally I am very unhappy with my music situation. I have my music on MM, but I rarely use my computer to listen to music. I have an outdated ipod nano that I hate updating because I like the genius feature so I try to transfer my playlists from MM to iTunes before syncing to my ipod and the whole process is a HUGE MESS. Also I have an android phone that has identity issues... I bounce between groveshark, google music, and the default android music program. None of them have my playlists the way I want them, none of them sync automatically to MM the way I wish they could.

This december my verizon contract will be up and I will start thinking about getting a new phone. I am seriously considering the iPhone and moving to iTunes completely instead of mediamonkey. I hate the idea but MM is going nowhere. It is the same as it has always been: great at sorting music and creating playlists automatically. But my # of devices has grown and I need software that can help me manage my devices not just my mp3s.
This thread has really motivated me to help support mediamonkey moving towards cloud compatibility (as I see it as the next generation of music listening devices). I recently made an add-on for mediamonkey that will sync your playlists from mediamonkey into grooveshark, my personal favorite cloud based player (works through browser, desktop app, and android):

MM -> GROOVESHARK: http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =2&t=60610
Last edited by wormywyrm on Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
MM to Grooveshark Playlist Sync w/ MonkeyShark.
http://lysle.net/projects/monkeyshark.php

wormywyrm
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:40 pm

Re: MM Cloud

Post by wormywyrm » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:45 am

When google music releases its API then I will work on a similar sync for that too because I think its pretty decent & a popular cloud service. :)

I think that this is something mediamonkey needs to start thinking about building into their software though; cloud services really are the new wave of 'devices'. People just have too many devices now to sync them individually.
MM to Grooveshark Playlist Sync w/ MonkeyShark.
http://lysle.net/projects/monkeyshark.php

Agrajag
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

Re: MM Cloud

Post by Agrajag » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:29 pm

Wow, I stopped getting updates on this thread and assumed it died. Then this morning I read this story:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/09/20 ... -on-html5/

It's all about how HTML5 is changing the face of gaming and that soon all gaming will be done via the browser.

It's the same thing I heard myself from other major game developers. And one thing I've learned over the years is that where gaming goes so goes everyone else soon thereafter. wormmyrm I'm the one that mentioned "remember MediaMonkey?" I firmly believe that's where there is heading if the devs for this product don't stop thinking like it's 1995. The overwhelming VAST MAJORITY of users today despise installing things. They want to walk up to a device and start working. Portable versions? Who cares? I consult with companies continually that use Google Docs to run their entire company. Why when it's so much less feature-rich than Office? It's free, sure but that's not actually the main reason. The main reason I hear all the time is it's so pervasive and available everywhere. Everyone can use Google Docs. No need for support at a company to have to provide for licenses and Help Desk support to get it onto a laptop or users home PC, etc. They just launch a URL and go.

Wake up and smell the coffee people. The world is changing and this product either will evolve with it or it'll wither and die. It's as simple as that. NAS? No way. Maybe for the extreme power users but no normal user is going to bother.

hispeedsurfer

Re: MM Cloud

Post by hispeedsurfer » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:13 am

Peke wrote:Here is my small view of Mm future in means of Clouding.

NOTE that 10GB LAN is still not standard, but using 1GB LAN (Wireless excluded due the its faults)

- MediaMonkey DB Server on NAS using for example QNap-s plugin QPG package.
- Most NAS-es uses Linux Kernel as Base drive force, so MM on Linux would be great start in that direction
- Direct SDK in terms of Calls to DB server that is platform independent and allow third party developers create own magic

One thing is for sure that MM devs 24/7 think of MM future.
+1

wormywyrm
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:40 pm

Re: MM Cloud

Post by wormywyrm » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:06 pm

I would like to quickly draw attention to these instructions by cmatte of setting up an automatic sync from MediaMonkey to Google Music (via WMP).

Original Thread: https://groups.google.com/a/googleprodu ... UpuSmx-WIJ

Cleaned Up Instructions:
Let's try to sum things up for people who want to try and use Google Music's great new service AND the already great Media Monkey. ;) This will sync any changes in MediaMonkey's music or playlists into Google Music, totally automatically.

1) Find, install and activate a script which exports your playlists in a regular and automatic manner in any folder/root of your music collection, or somewhere else, it just doesn't matter as long as you tell WMP where they are in step 3. I would advice you to put the saved playlists into the same music folder to make things simpler. The script named Export M3Us/Create Playlists for Child Nodes is what I used to do this (I've tried version 3.5.3 and 3.6 so far).

2) After installing, visit the options menu for your new MediaMonkey script under File>Export Playlists>Options. Options I've set that accomplish our duties are:
*export to single folder
*all sub-level of nodes (cmatte recommends this, but I, wormy found it to export playlists of every single artist in my library, which was just way too many extra playlists, so I recommend turning it off)
*relative paths in m3us (important!)
*skip exports of nodes/folder: ^(CD|Disc) ?\d+|Accessible Tracks|Imported playlists
*use regular expressions for specifying paths/folders (important!)
*exclude unavailable files
*ANSI (important!)
*extended .m3u format (important!)
*automatically export on shutdown, and every 60 mins. (wormy likes to use every 5 mins because it exports really fast and uses barely any CPU)

3) Now open our dear old Windows Media Player and set it to NOT reorganize our music collection with names and so on (it should be defaulted to this but you may want to check anyways under Options>Library). We must add our folders that contain our music and those that contain the playlists to the WMP library to let it load/create a multimedia database. Once it loads your playlists should appear into WMP, and be auto-updated shortly after MM updates them! They should show up in WMP after you add your music and playlist folders to the WMP library. If you only add the playlists but not the music itself to the library, you may find that the playlists appear in WMP but they do not sync into google music... Make sure to add both your music and playlists to WMP (it should take a while).

4) Now install Google Music Manager. After the first time you open Google Music Manager set it to check WMP to load all your music. From then on it will be done automatically in background even without WMP open, because Google Music Manager silently opens wmplayer.exe to let it update your library (from the folder that MM is loading your playlists and music into) and load/compare it with the known Google Music one.

5) From now on the whole syncing work is going to be done transparently without any action on your part!!! And it's super cool to see our phones daily downloading to offline the new/modified songs from our favorite playlists ;) In short, what we have done is made our music go from MM Database -> A folder of M3U files -> WMP Database -> GMM -> Google Music. From google music it will sync to your phone or wherever!
(PS, sorry for posting this multiple times but there were multiple threads that I felt it was relevant in)
MM to Grooveshark Playlist Sync w/ MonkeyShark.
http://lysle.net/projects/monkeyshark.php

Nova5
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:33 pm

Re: MM Cloud

Post by Nova5 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:49 am

I have my own cloud effectively. I use AudioGalaxy to play all my music from my home server to anywhere I choose. Be it my phone or tablet via the AG app, or another PC at a friends home via the AG website. Any I have no limits on storage in my cloud, unlike Google Music where you do pay after a certain point for X space.

Agrajag
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

Re: MM Cloud

Post by Agrajag » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:07 pm

Sorry but this again has absolutely nothing to do with what I've described.

The benefits of what I describe include (but are not limited to):

1. No need to install anything on a device beyond the browser (this fails that).

2. No need to be concerned with networking of any type including opening ports, etc. (many of the AG-type solutions fail that).

3. No need to store your files locally (this fails that).

4. No need for a "home" device to be powered-up 24/7 for you to have access which, for many of us, is very intermittently (this fails that).

I'm not sure how much more clear I could be that virtually every counter proposal to what I initially stated may work for those who have it running but it does not address the issues as laid out.

Nova5
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:33 pm

Re: MM Cloud

Post by Nova5 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:47 pm

Agrajag wrote:Sorry but this again has absolutely nothing to do with what I've described.

The benefits of what I describe include (but are not limited to):

1. No need to install anything on a device beyond the browser (this fails that).
Pretty much EVERYTHING will fail that. Even Google Music fails that. The browers on android and iphone just don't have the extensive functionality desktops do. an App is the only current solution
2. No need to be concerned with networking of any type including opening ports, etc. (many of the AG-type solutions fail that).
Many AG type solutions DON'T need port openings as they contact and outside server and use an account to link you through that.
3. No need to store your files locally (this fails that).
WHere you do plan to put 80gigs of music?
4. No need for a "home" device to be powered-up 24/7 for you to have access which, for many of us, is very intermittently (this fails that).
Same as 3.

I'm not sure how much more clear I could be that virtually every counter proposal to what I initially stated may work for those who have it running but it does not address the issues as laid out.
Because you're a little nuts ;) But hey EVERYONE is.

Nova5
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:33 pm

Re: MM Cloud

Post by Nova5 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:59 pm

BTW lets looks at your original....
I'd love to see MediaMonkey embrace the changing online world and move away from a client app and more towards a cloud version or at least a version we can install on our own servers and run from anywhere (which would include our phones, tablets, laptops, etc.)
Notice you said "On our own servers". AG fits that with its server app. Using a browser you can get it on laptops for sure, and tablets/phones just varies quite widely, hence the availability of the client app. The browser version is just limited in ability due to it just getting started. you can create playlists, etc. has a AutoDJ (Genie) and a few other useful features. But I doubt it'll ever be a Mediamonkey. Anything that runs inside your network either needs ports opened to work or needs to have a way to log into a remote site, you then also log into that remote site and gain access to that music. the remote site method bypasses any need for opened ports.

Agrajag
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

Re: MM Cloud

Post by Agrajag » Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:02 pm

1. Google Music's app is there only to sync songs. Once done it's no longer needed. I haven't had it running on my system for months.

3. Space is becoming a non-issue on many services including Google Music. Again, that's going to continue on that way with each passing quarter. My hope is to then have something like MM in the cloud that I can simply point to where my music is.

4. No issue accessing my Google Music with my PC shut off.

As far as being nuts, I've been ahead of the curve on many such issues over the history of computing and this will be yet another one. As I said, if MM doesn't change then they'll become irrelevant and that's why I'm sounding the alarm. In 10 years everyone will look back at this period and wonder what took so long.

Nova5
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:33 pm

Re: MM Cloud

Post by Nova5 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:42 pm

Agrajag wrote:1. Google Music's app is there only to sync songs. Once done it's no longer needed. I haven't had it running on my system for months.

3. Space is becoming a non-issue on many services including Google Music. Again, that's going to continue on that way with each passing quarter. My hope is to then have something like MM in the cloud that I can simply point to where my music is.

4. No issue accessing my Google Music with my PC shut off.

As far as being nuts, I've been ahead of the curve on many such issues over the history of computing and this will be yet another one. As I said, if MM doesn't change then they'll become irrelevant and that's why I'm sounding the alarm. In 10 years everyone will look back at this period and wonder what took so long.

Google Music also needs app on Android and Iphone devices to play its music. PCs have enough functionality in their webbrowser to use the cloud player.


Cloud generally means available anywhere. Using ones own server can fulfill this. My stuff sits on my own server I can use as I please.

tbessie
Posts: 388
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:50 am

Re: MM Cloud

Post by tbessie » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:22 pm

Hmm... Wikipedia has a quote about Spotify ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotify#Criticism ):
Spotify contains digital rights management and is therefore identified by Defective by Design, a Free Software Foundation campaign, as "defective by design." Moreover, for using the service, proprietary software needs to be installed on the user's computer.
The fact of the DRM, of the need for proprietary software to access my music, lack of access to all the kinds of music I'd often want to get (I have some odd tastes) makes music purchased and accessed THROUGH the cloud (and usually in a lossy format of some sort) makes me far less likely to want to use cloud services for media that I might otherwise purchase as a CD (tho' who knows where those will go in the future).

I'm not saying it doesn't have a place - but I really do like full control of media I've purchased, I want it in the best format possible, I want it without advertisements, without DRM, without any logging of my activity... in fact, without ANY connection to who I am or my listening habits, etc.

If MM were to be cloudified somehow, no matter the good intentions of the MM devs themselves, I wouldn't trust SOMEBODY in the media supply chain to abuse their privileges. For example, I tag all the email addresses I supply to third parties so I know if it gets sold/swapped/given away. There was a time when the email address I gave to United Airlines (and ONLY to them) was sold/swapped/stolen/etc. and I started getting spam on it.

The chance that that could happen in a big "respected" company like United airlines, even if it was "only" my email address, is enough for me not to trust 3rd parties with my information. That said, I'm sure hundreds of companies have my personal info, credit card info, etc. Why do that if I don't need to? Why take the chance I will be subject to DRM, behavior tracking, etc. at some point in the future?

That's why I like all my media here at home, on my own media server, controlled 100% by me.

It may sound somewhat Luddite to the original poster of this thread, but there are some things I like to keep here. Hell, you'd be surprised how much time and money I've spent finding solutions to keep all PIM (personal information management) info on my Android phone from getting on any of Google's services... I never sync those devices, have paid quite a bit of money for local sync solutions, still am using my old Palm TX for some things, etc.

Call me old fashioned, but I like it that way.

Now... where did I put my rocking chair? :-)

- Tim

PhYrE
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:43 am

Re: MM Cloud

Post by PhYrE » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:46 pm

This thread is a little bit ridiculous.

Clouds generally
----------------
- Storing data in the cloud is a great way to access the same data from anywhere
- Backups go to the cloud and end up in long-term archived storage
- Clouds are useful for small items where sharing is crucial (documents, photos, e-mail)

Apple's iCloud
--------------
- Apple's cloud saves only music books and video downloaded from iOS as it doesn't actually store these items. It stores references to these items so that you can download these items again from Apple. It requires no storage.
- Apple's cloud still expects your device to store data and not play a song and then send it again and again each time you play it. So it's a _distribution channel_ for music
- iOS backups back up user data ONLY
- Apple's cloud provides some small storage for current user data (photos/contacts/calendar) however note that it still expects devices to have this data stored locally


Other points
------------
- Where will the particular vendor you choose be 30 years from now when you want to listen to your favourite past-times? I want control over my video and music. Yes formats may change, but the music is mine.

- Think of the 'censorship' problems in the past. What happens when they deem your favourite artist as something they won't let you get anymore?

- Changes to tags and ratings are device-specific.

- Why would I pay (or receive ads or be profiled) for a service I have for free?

- Why would I want to limit myself to receiving only music when I have connectivity? What about the subway? The plane? My laptop on the go?

- Why would I want to kill the battery on my phone by using wireless data 100% of the time versus just playing some media?

- UPnP and modern routers has fixed the 'port forwarding' days of the past. A program is opened to the public, it requests a port, it gets a port, it keeps that port open as long as the application needs it. For all but corporate networks, this is how it works and it works fine. Gaming and most applications no longer require any port forwarding as they once did.



The above said, I do use a cloud. It works well to have CURRENT DATA accessible by all devices. A phone camera roll, the latest purchase you just made, or the document you're working on. That said, my non-current documents are archived nicely on my PC for later use. My music is archived and backed up at home. My photos of weddings and graduations and so on are neatly placed on my computer. These all have no place in a cloud. My music tagged how I like it is no exception.

The ideal situation:
- Keep MM as an application that manages my music library
- Have a Web interface to access my music while on the go
- Have a Web service that acts to redirect users to the proper IP/Port run by mediamonkey for novice users who don't know ports/IPs/dynamic-DNS

-M

windcrest77
Posts: 399
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: MM Cloud

Post by windcrest77 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:11 pm

Agrajag wrote:I'd love to see MediaMonkey embrace the changing online world and move away from a client app and more towards a cloud version or at least a version we can install on our own servers and run from anywhere (which would include our phones, tablets, laptops, etc.)

Take the registration income and move to an online model. Put ads on the site (they generate more revenue than you can imagine but make them for things related to the music).

For me, I noticed I almost never use MediaMonkey anymore. Why? All my music is now in Google Music and I have Spotify. Between them I've got access to all my music and all music in general. The only thing I'm using MM for is editing my files. Sort of sad that that's what it's being reduced to. Nothing, in my view, is better at that but it just too inconvenient to bother with it otherwise.
I just ran a quick calculation...

If I had the luxury of leaving my computer running 24 hours a day, AND my Internet connection never went down, AND it ran at a constant upload speed of 1 mbps (which is typical average for my provider). It would take exactly 69.5 days to upload my 6TB library to "the cloud" additionally said "cloud provider" would easily charge me a cost of $15,000 over 3 years (based on Amazons current pricing for 3 year contract). Of course Internet connections are not always fast, do not alwways stay up, etc. so uploading my files would more likely take an entire year because I dont intend on running the computer 24 hours. Additionally if I did, my ISP would charge me for going over my upload transfer allocation further adding to the cost. Probably adding $100 a month to my bill for $1200 a year.

Here is how I got 70 days (6,000,000,000,000 bytes / 1,000,000 mbps = 6,000,000 seconds / 60 = 1,000,000 minutes / 60 = 1667 hours / 24 = 69.5 days). This is the ideal upload of course, never achievable. I figure more like one year of lost time doing an upload to "the cloud".

Or I can buy a couple of 3TB hard drives for around $300 (pre-Taiwan flood pricing). I can buy another pair of 3TB hard drives to store off-site as a backup in my safe deposit box. So for only $600 vs over $15,000, I am all set with very fast 600 gbps SATA 3 hard drives and no lag or need to be connected. Or I can pay Amazon $5,000 a year and my ISP another $1,000 and get really slow access time and the requirement that I always be in somebodys "hot spot" to do stuff.

Hmmm which would I pick? Tough decision.

windcrest77
Posts: 399
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: MM Cloud

Post by windcrest77 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:19 pm

windcrest77 wrote:
Agrajag wrote:I'd love to see MediaMonkey embrace the changing online world and move away from a client app and more towards a cloud version or at least a version we can install on our own servers and run from anywhere (which would include our phones, tablets, laptops, etc.)

Take the registration income and move to an online model. Put ads on the site (they generate more revenue than you can imagine but make them for things related to the music).

For me, I noticed I almost never use MediaMonkey anymore. Why? All my music is now in Google Music and I have Spotify. Between them I've got access to all my music and all music in general. The only thing I'm using MM for is editing my files. Sort of sad that that's what it's being reduced to. Nothing, in my view, is better at that but it just too inconvenient to bother with it otherwise.
I just ran a quick calculation...

If I had the luxury of leaving my computer running 24 hours a day, AND my Internet connection never went down, AND it ran at a constant upload speed of 1 mbps (which is typical average for my provider). It would take exactly 69.5 days to upload my 6TB library to "the cloud" additionally said "cloud provider" would easily charge me a cost of $15,000 over 3 years (based on Amazons current pricing for 3 year contract). Of course Internet connections are not always fast, do not alwways stay up, etc. so uploading my files would more likely take an entire year because I dont intend on running the computer 24 hours. Additionally if I did, my ISP would charge me for going over my upload transfer allocation further adding to the cost. Probably adding $100 a month to my bill for $1200 a year.

Here is how I got 70 days (6,000,000,000,000 bytes / 1,000,000 mbps = 6,000,000 seconds / 60 = 1,000,000 minutes / 60 = 1667 hours / 24 = 69.5 days). This is the ideal upload of course, never achievable. I figure more like one year of lost time doing an upload to "the cloud".

Or I can buy a couple of 3TB hard drives for around $300 (pre-Taiwan flood pricing). I can buy another pair of 3TB hard drives to store off-site as a backup in my safe deposit box. So for only $600 vs over $15,000, I am all set with very fast 600 gbps SATA 3 hard drives and no lag or need to be connected. Or I can pay Amazon $5,000 a year and my ISP another $1,000 and get really slow access time and the requirement that I always be in somebodys "hot spot" to do stuff.

Hmmm which would I pick? Tough decision.

typo s/b 100,000 minutes (but calculation is correct)

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