2194: (still) no sorting options in grid view

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Graves
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:36 am

2194: (still) no sorting options in grid view

Post by Graves » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:23 pm

Hi,

I might be missing something, but I neither know by what exactly MMV sorts albums, e.g. in Genres\[Genre], nor how to change/control it?
*without* having to write any javascript myself, I mean :)

KR

Ludek
Posts: 2967
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: 2194: (still) no sorting options in grid view

Post by Ludek » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:17 am

I see that there is is "sort by Popularity", see: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cyekb1vg3wjph ... 6.png?dl=0

If I click the "Popularity" the sort changes to "Name".

Graves
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:36 am

Re: 2194: (still) no sorting options in grid view

Post by Graves » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:29 pm

Double clicking a genre does the trick, I see...
First time I saw this screen now, though I've been beta testing for quite a while actually :wink:
Guess that's because something happens on clicking once already.
And you can't sort stuff there, within this great first overview showing everything

Brings up another thought as well: Some of MMVs features aren't quite obvious to find or even be existant!

> The marks are for some other detail that came to my attention
Image

Barry4679
Posts: 721
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: 2194: (still) no sorting options in grid view

Post by Barry4679 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:22 am

Graves wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:29 pm
Brings up another thought as well: Some of MMVs features aren't quite obvious to find or even be existant!
I agree 100% ... I wish more testers were so frank. It needs to be said.

I am not saying that it is bad ... or that it won't fly ... I think MM5 is really good, but it does need a well thought out and well executed set of intro animation panels for MM5 ... ie. one for filtering and sorting ... and another for web features .. and another for syncing ... and another MMA integration ... and another for auto-tagging ... and another for playlists ... etc

The problem is that seems to me that the MM people genuinely can't see this ... they designed it ... and they learnt it incrementally ... and they don't think that there is a problem.

Other smallish companies, who have great but complex s/w tools, address this issue. Example, the Wing IDE for Python:
  • plus a library of pithy task based Wing Guides available from the product's tool bar
That is where the bar should be set IMO


Graves wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:29 pm
Double clicking a genre does the trick, I see...

[snip]
Guess that's because something happens on clicking once already.
And you can't sort stuff there, within this great first overview showing everything
What are you double clicking to get there?
I get there, but it takes more than a double click?
Where did you double click?

BTW which part of that screen was new to you? This bit? ... or something else

The bit indicated above is available from lots of places in the MM5 UI, and is an important part of the UI
ie. it is available from almost anywhere, via these two routes and Ctrl+F

Your observation that there is no way to sort results from a filter, is interesting. ... That would a good addition ... example, for use in grid view mode, where there are no other available options.

Your initial question was asking about sorting grids of albums .... MM5 is deficient here.

AFAIK you can sort album grids here, but only here

You cannot configure grid sort in other places where it would be useful, and expected. Examples:
  • like here: in the in-line album panel in the Music>Composer node; the UI|skin does not make it very clear, but I have chosen the composer Delius ... his albums are sorted by date released (?), and that is fixed (?)
  • or here at the Home screen ... I have selected the Artist Portishead ... again the albums cannot be sorted in the inline panel which opens up
  • or here ... where you were, in Music>Genre ... the album sort sequence looks random, but is probably Date Released also
I think that their argument, is that these cannot be sorted because they are inline panels, and not grids ... but that is a piece on Monty Python reasoning isn't it :) ... the thing is that it is very desirable that their sort sequence be configurable IMO .. almost a basic requirement.

Your observation leads to the thought that the Filter facility could be useful here, and elsewhere ... ie. a "filter" that has no selection criteria, but which does have a sort criteria

But the most intuitive path would be to have a Sort option, for inline panels, in the View menu , and also in the Manage Views facility ... just like there is for the main grid in Music>Albums node

Graves
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:36 am

Re: 2194: (still) no sorting options in grid view

Post by Graves » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:58 am

Darn, you love writing way more than I do reading...
Alright, let's do this:
Barry4679 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:22 am
I am not saying that it is bad ...
And shouldn't ;) I said it's got more features than I even could find within a year or so, basically :D

Barry4679 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:22 am
... ie. one for filtering and sorting ... and another for web features .. and another for syncing ... and another MMA integration ... and another for auto-tagging ... and another for playlists ... etc
You just don't write a program like that. It's better to have one shared library of stuff. Easier to maintain and extend as well as better for your HD and RAM.

But yes, I agree with you in MMV's interface not being 100% beginners-friendly ...
IDE's don't need to be so don't compare, but who'd ever read quick start guides or even perform tutorials for some media player?
I wouldn't.
I'd rather write bug reports, as you can see :D


Now the FAQs:
Barry4679 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:22 am
Graves wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:29 pm
Double clicking a genre does the trick, I see...

[snip]
Guess that's because something happens on clicking once already.
And you can't sort stuff there, within this great first overview showing everything
What are you double clicking to get there?
I get there, but it takes more than a double click?
Where did you double click?
Answer:
Well, i just double click the genre.


Question:
Barry4679 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:22 am
BTW which part of that screen was new to you? This bit? ... or something else
Answer:
Something else:
Ludek wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:17 am
I see that there is is "sort by Popularity", see: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cyekb1vg3wjph ... 6.png?dl=0

Last but not least, my actual point (something completely different):
1. Open Genres in grid view
2. Left click any genre
3. Matching albums will be shown within a "box" expanding, immutably sorted by i-have-no-idea

Barry4679
Posts: 721
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: 2194: (still) no sorting options in grid view

Post by Barry4679 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:44 am

Graves wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:58 am
And shouldn't ;) I said it's got more features than I even could find within a year or so, basically :D
OK, but I have a different opinion as to whether that (ie. the year) is a good thing.

Graves wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:58 am
You just don't write a program like that. It's better to have one shared library of stuff. Easier to maintain and extend as well as better for your HD and RAM.
Not my point ... maybe I didn't write enough :wink: ... I was meaning that MM5 needs some kind of intro tut .. preferably available from the tool bar ... to avoid people requiring a year to stumble over good features that aren't readily discoverable.


Graves wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:58 am
IDE's don't need to be so don't compare, but who'd ever read quick start guides or even perform tutorials for some media player?
I wouldn't.
1. I agree that I pushed the comparison too far.
2. MM is way more than just a Media Player ... It's tag line is "A Media Manager For Serious Collectors" ... ie. it is a complex tool, managing something that is important to some|many customers
3. Who'd ever read a quick start or tut? ... well I would for a starter ... and it's needed IMO, but I respect that you have a different opinion


Graves wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:58 am
Answer:
Well, i just double click the genre.
Thanks ... I see what you mean now ... you have to select it, before double clicking, otherwise you navigate forwards ... looks like you have found another bug to me.

Graves wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:58 am
Last but not least, my actual point (something completely different):
1. Open Genres in grid view
2. Left click any genre
3. Matching albums will be shown within a "box" expanding, immutably sorted by i-have-no-idea
As I said somewhere in my (long, sorry) post, I think that they are sorted by Date Released.

And I guess that we agree that it is desirable that this be configurable?

Graves
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:36 am

Re: 2194: (still) no sorting options in grid view

Post by Graves » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:46 am

Barry4679 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:44 am
Not my point ... maybe I didn't write enough :wink: ... I was meaning that MM5 needs some kind of intro tut .. preferably available from the tool bar ... to avoid people requiring a year to stumble over good features that aren't readily discoverable.
I hate to admit, but you actually didn't write enough :D
After reading through your suggestions I think, some sort of "Getting started" tour, as seen in many other apps nowadays, might be great.
Like you start MMV for the very first time (or a new version with significant changes) and some popups introduce you to handling, features etc., highlights important or interesting interactive elements and so on.
I think MS Teams does so, or every single Pay-to-win strategy game on your mobile :)
Barry4679 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:44 am
Thanks ... I see what you mean now ... you have to select it, before double clicking, otherwise you navigate forwards ... looks like you have found another bug to me.
You're right - it's just not that easy:
If nothing's expanded yet OR you double click a genre from within the first/upmost row it will work without prior selection.
Due to a newly expanded list reducing all others and thus changing the genre boxes' positions you actually *can't* double click them any more if they are below an already expanded genre - second click will hit something else :D
And yes, it's a bug! I'll open a new topic for it.
Barry4679 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:44 am
As I said somewhere in my (long, sorry) post, I think that they are sorted by Date Released.
True! Knowing so already eases the search for specific items a lot, thanks!
Barry4679 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:44 am
And I guess that we agree that it is desirable that this be configurable?
Definitely!

Graves
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:36 am

Re: 2194: (still) no sorting options in grid view

Post by Graves » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:46 am

Bug report done:
https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewt ... 30&t=95077

Do you think, any of the developers or at least moderators will read through aaaaall our text?
Someone should definitely pay attention to our ideas to
  • enable individual sorting in library main node grid view and
  • adding tutorials or starter guides to MMV

Ludek
Posts: 2967
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: 2194: (still) no sorting options in grid view

Post by Ludek » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:07 am

Graves wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:46 am
Do you think, any of the developers or at least moderators will read through aaaaall our text?
Someone should definitely pay attention to our ideas to
  • enable individual sorting in library main node grid view and
  • adding tutorials or starter guides to MMV
Yes, the request for more sorting options in grid views has been already requested several times and is on our TODO (as we mentioned several times in the other posts).
The tutorials has been requested by Barry (many of times in his long texts) and would be definetely nice to have.
We might be waiting until all the new MM5 UI is polished and stabilized enough to make the tutorials permanent (without a need to re-making the tutorials again once UI is changed somehow). Currently Barry seems the best MM5 tutorials maker ;-) (having more time than we developers ;-) ), let us know if you are interested in making tutorials and I am going to discuss the needs with colleagues right now...

Graves
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:36 am

Re: 2194: (still) no sorting options in grid view

Post by Graves » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:00 am

Ludek wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:07 am
let us know if you are interested in making tutorials
Interested, indeed. Though I don't have quite much time to do so either. On the other hand I don't think we're talking about very much scripting...
Haven't looked closely to your scripts yet (little time ;) ) - do you use jQuery?

Plus I'd need classNames for tooltips, info boxes etc.

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