Porting MM4 scripts

To discuss development of addons / skins / customization of MediaMonkey.

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Lowlander
Posts: 46172
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:53 pm
Location: MediaMonkey 5

Re: Porting MM4 scripts

Post by Lowlander » Mon May 13, 2019 2:12 pm

MMuser2011 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 2:08 pm
If you read the answer from ZvezdanD you know: This will NOT happen.
Obviously, ZvezdanD has made that very clear. Doesn't change anything about the sentiment though.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

ZvezdanD
Posts: 3090
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:40 pm

Re: Porting MM4 scripts

Post by ZvezdanD » Tue May 14, 2019 2:23 am

The first MM5 version available for download was on 12 Feb 2015 (https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewt ... 68#p402260). I got the information about it by MM developers through the e-mail in 19 Jun 2015, when I posted the first post in (now) this thread. Before I posted that post, I downloaded the MM5 and also I took a look at their Web site with the new scripting API reference (http://www.mediamonkey.com/webhelp/MM5Preview). Which means it was ready for scripters to write scripts for MM5 even back then, four years ago.

The first MM that got the scripting support was also in Alpha stage (MediaMonkey 2.3.1.811 (Alpha 2)). I developed my first MM scripts when MM3 was in Alpha phase. Many scripters was also reluctant to write scripts for something which is unfinished even then, but hundreds of scripts by other authors was created when the old MM was in Alpha stage anyway. The situation is now the same as it was back then. There was "too many changes still going on" back then as well. Do you remember what problems caused their switching from MS Jet database used in MM2 to SQLite that was used later? Well, I know very well about that.

If you don't take a look at "downloads that come from the Addon developers sites" or this whole Forum, where else could you find MM5 add-ons? It is simple fact and you should face with it, there is not a single MM5 add-on. Anywhere. Four years after the public introduction and availability of the new API.

By the way, I am not talking here about "users holding back on upgrading to MediaMonkey 5", but about scripters holding back on upgrading to MM5. This thread (and this whole Forum) is (and should be) dedicated to the development of MM scripts, not the program.
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TIV73
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:31 pm

Re: Porting MM4 scripts

Post by TIV73 » Sat May 18, 2019 11:38 am

It's hard not to sympathize with both sides here. It's true, the backend switch kinda sucks. Years worth of functionality and support, in the form of addons, just go poof. This functionality can be rewritten of course, but that will take a considerable amount of time - and that's the best case scenario. More realistically, it's a question of 'if', not 'when'.
When MM5 releases, most people have two options - make the switch and lose stuff they got used to for close to a decade, or stay with MM4 which will eventually lose support. As a user, you are pretty much stuck between a rock and a hard place.

On the other hand I can't blame the developers for making this call. MM4 is built on technologies that are outdated, deprecated or dead. Of course they knew that a hard cut would, on top of having to rewrite the whole application from scratch, break all existing addon support, but what's the alternative? Keep supporting a scripting language that has been dead for years now? It's a bandaid they had to rip off sooner or later, and that always hurts, no way around it.

Personally, I don't really mind that much. Mediamonkey is a great media player, with or without addons. I'm not sure if I would recommend start writing extensions just yet. Right now I'm running 12 custom extensions (two of which are public) and it's very much like ZvezdanD said for MM4, stuff still gets changed around on a regular basis and it's likely that you will have to adjust your extension around these changes - especially if we are talking about skins. Seriously, don't write custom skins right now, it's not worth it.

Ludek
Posts: 3036
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: Porting MM4 scripts

Post by Ludek » Wed May 22, 2019 5:27 am

Seriously, don't write custom skins right now, it's not worth it.
Can you please elaborate why don't write custom skins right now?
Writing MM5 skins requires just basic HTML5/CSS3 knowledge (and is more powerful than MM4 skinning). We haven't changed the MM5 skinning framework for year(s) and we don't plan any significant change(s) to the MM5 skinning framework anymore.
We are adding some new elements/features (like waveform seekbar support in 2176+), but this is not breaking the existing skins.
So why it's not worth write custom skins?

TIV73
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:31 pm

Re: Porting MM4 scripts

Post by TIV73 » Wed May 22, 2019 1:00 pm

Let me elaborate on what I meant - I'm currently using a custom skin that I originally made (judging from the git log) june last year, which I based on one of the built-in skins. Since then, the built-in skins were constantly improved, which is a good thing of course, and I've been, mostly, trying to keep up with the changes.

And there were quite a lot of changes since then. From what I recall there was never anything major or stuff that was broken, mostly small stuff. A column looking incorrect because its min or max width was changed, an element having the wrong color because a selector was changed, stuff like that. To be fair, from what I can tell the frequency of changes has somewhat slowed down.

Ludek
Posts: 3036
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: Porting MM4 scripts

Post by Ludek » Thu May 23, 2019 5:00 am

OK, thank you for the elaboration.

I guess that the last changes were when I was adding 'Material design' skins two years ago.
Since then there have been minimal changes AFAIK.

Anyhow, feel free to report any skinning issue (be it regression or feature request) and we will be glad to resolve it, e.g. in the next beta build there will be new "waveform bar" -- so check that it won't broke anything in your skins. Also, we should probably test also your skins whenever we are making a change to the default /skin/ directory ;-)
Finally, it is nice to see that anyone (except for us) is making MM5 skins!! ;-)

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