Analyze Volume and Level Track Volume Questions

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Bespin1138
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Analyze Volume and Level Track Volume Questions

Post by Bespin1138 » Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:27 pm

Hi,

I am using MediaMonkey Gold version 4.1.7.1741 as my primary music player for all of my FLAC songs which use Vorbis tagging. I have been using MediaMonkey for a little over nine months now. I had asked some questions in the first couple months after I started using this player when this was new to me. Based on my experience, I just wanted to make sure that I understand two of the player's features correctly. Those features are the Analyze Volume and Level Track Volume controls. Please note that I am only using MediaMonkey and no add-ons.

I used a program called Tag Scanner to list all of my music and look at the dates modified for all the songs that I experimented with the Analyze Volume and Level Track Volume controls. When I applied the Analyze Volume control onto my selected songs, Tag Scanner listed the dates under the Date Modified column as later than the dates before I applied this feature. When I replaced the altered songs with original copies stored on my external hard, the previous dates under the Date Modified column were restored. When I attempted multiple times to apply the Level Track volume on my selected FLAC songs, Media Monkey said it could only apply this feaure if the songs were in MP3 format. Therefore the FLAC songs were unaltered due to the dates listed under Date Modified remaining the same both before and after my unsuccessful attempts.

With regard to the Analyze Volume control, my understanding is that this feature only places a command tag regarding the volume level for the track and/or album. What this does is tell either MediaMonkey or some other player or device with this feature to play back the track or tracks at the adjusted volume levels listed in the tag. If the player or device either has this feature disabled or does not have it, the tracks playback at their default volume levels. This feature does not alter the audio file itself, it just tells the player or device to adjust its volume settings to the specified levels listed in the track or album's tag.

The Level Track Volume control permanently modifies the source audio file or files. According to the player itself, it only works with MP3 files. If the file is not in MP3 format, the file will not be changed in anyway and will remain as it was before I attempted to change it with the Level Track Volume control.

Again, I just want to confirm that I understand the functions of these features on MediaMonkey correctly. I would appreciate it if you would point out out any errors to my understanding on these features.

Thanks.

SonicNova
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Re: Analyze Volume and Level Track Volume Questions

Post by SonicNova » Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:42 pm

HI Bespin, your summary is my understanding also. Cheers. Levelling is permanent while analysing make an adjustment within the file for the player to read. It's not permanent.
MM User since 2010.

Lowlander
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Re: Analyze Volume and Level Track Volume Questions

Post by Lowlander » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:21 am

Bespin1138 wrote:With regard to the Analyze Volume control, my understanding is that this feature only places a command tag regarding the volume level for the track and/or album. What this does is tell either MediaMonkey or some other player or device with this feature to play back the track or tracks at the adjusted volume levels listed in the tag. If the player or device either has this feature disabled or does not have it, the tracks playback at their default volume levels. This feature does not alter the audio file itself, it just tells the player or device to adjust its volume settings to the specified levels listed in the track or album's tag.
Yes, and thus the best option unless you're using a Player that doesn't understand this (MM can do level volume on-the-fly for DLNA streaming and device syncing leaving originals intact).
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

toyzrme
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Re: Analyze Volume and Level Track Volume Questions

Post by toyzrme » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:09 pm

Curious, I tried making 2 copies of an MP3 to test this: original (NO replay gain), one that I only "analyzed", and one that I "leveled".
THERE IS NO PHYSICAL DIFFERENCE IN THE RESULTS. I'm not sure this is what is SUPPOSED to happen, I'm just reporting what I saw (4.1.10-1778).

To compare results, I ran BeyondCompare (with MP3 addon) to compare the contents (if you haven't tried it, a GREAT program - content-aware, shows differences in tags vs. audio data, and you can mark which tags you think important enough to consider 2 versions of a file "different" in a directory tree comparison).

BeyondCompare showed the 2 attributes added for "Analyze" as:
0.69 dB (replaygain_track_gain)
0.678528 (replaygain_track_peak)

And the "Leveled" is EXACTLY THE SAME (FYI MMW also showed the same info, but no way to tell exactly what's changed in the binary).
0.69 dB (replaygain_track_gain)
0.678528 (replaygain_track_peak)

This was on Windows 10 x64, MM v 4.1.10 (latest).

Can anyone explain why this is so? I thought "Level" would do something else, like change each audio frame's volume, similar to MP3Gain.
Environment:
MMW: ~25,000 tracks, MM.DB on 16Gbps PCIe SSD (Samsung 950 Pro) - up-to-date, not Beta
MMA: ~12,000 tracks sync'd to phone - up-to-date, not Beta
PC: Windows 10/64, Skylake quad+HT @4.2GHz, 64GB RAM, 14TB RAID6
Phone: Galaxy S10 (128GB) + 400GB mSD card (Samsung EVO+)
Sync: all tracks rated >=3 sync'd to phone
.........all playlists only use tracks rated >=3
.........thus sync'ing is 99.99% playlist update - no tracks are sync'd, other than new purchases
Playlists: ~59 synced
..........most are auto-playlists
..........use attributes Rating, Last Played, Date recorded, Genre, Genre "contains", Path "contains"
..........many are nested, i.e. "Top AutoPlaylist" includes "Level 2 AutoPL #1" + "Level 2 AutoPL #2" etc.

Peke
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Re: Analyze Volume and Level Track Volume Questions

Post by Peke » Mon May 23, 2016 7:54 am

Hi,
Level should change actual Audio data according to gain levels, where analyze just add gain index.

You should compare Audio in editor like http://www.wavosaur.com/ and not just tags.

If you find that Gain index is same and Audio data is leveled please report back.
Best regards,
Pavle
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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drughetto
Posts: 139
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is analize volume replaygain ?

Post by drughetto » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:36 am

Hi
does media monkey use replaygain when i analize volume?

and if yes does it scan only for tracks or album?


and another question about Image

many software use target to 98 and to 89 , why 89 by default?

thanks

Lowlander
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Re: Analyze Volume and Level Track Volume Questions

Post by Lowlander » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:18 pm

It's not recommended to go over 95dB as it may introduce playback artifacts.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

drughetto
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:19 am

Re: Analyze Volume and Level Track Volume Questions

Post by drughetto » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:16 am

Lowlander wrote:It's not recommended to go over 95dB as it may introduce playback artifacts.
hi
thanks
it could be enough to set output to 32bit like aimp to avoid them

Peke
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Re: Analyze Volume and Level Track Volume Questions

Post by Peke » Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:34 pm

Well,
1. MMW uses replaygain and alternative(format specific) for analyze
2. AIMP is BASS based player which uses different playback engine MMW is designed around Winamp based playback engine.
3. 32bit playback would not prevent clippings and artifact noise for that Compressor and Limiter is used but that kills music dynamics and make flat sound.
4. 89db is red book of Audio CD standard that was twisted overtime (Low/Sub Bass demand) so they raised it up to 95db and used compressor/limiters. Personally a CDs printed in 80's and cds of same genre today are head and butt when listened on high end (I Use it in TASCAM US 2x2 with Audio Technica ATH-M70X)
Best regards,
Pavle
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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drughetto
Posts: 139
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Re: Analyze Volume and Level Track Volume Questions

Post by drughetto » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:18 pm

Lowlander wrote:It's not recommended to go over 95dB as it may introduce playback artifacts.
hi
when i normalize a cd with eac or adobe audition cc ,it's set to 98 by default

drughetto
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:19 am

Re: Analyze Volume and Level Track Volume Questions

Post by drughetto » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:20 pm

Peke wrote:Well,
1. MMW uses replaygain and alternative(format specific) for analyze
2. AIMP is BASS based player which uses different playback engine MMW is designed around Winamp based playback engine.
3. 32bit playback would not prevent clippings and artifact noise for that Compressor and Limiter is used but that kills music dynamics and make flat sound.
4. 89db is red book of Audio CD standard that was twisted overtime (Low/Sub Bass demand) so they raised it up to 95db and used compressor/limiters. Personally a CDs printed in 80's and cds of same genre today are head and butt when listened on high end (I Use it in TASCAM US 2x2 with Audio Technica ATH-M70X)
1. MMW uses replaygain and alternative(format specific) for analyze
hi Peke
what do you mean for alternative (format specific) ?
when does media monkey use replaygain and when does it use alternative ?
2. AIMP is BASS based player which uses different playback engine MMW is designed around Winamp based playback engine.
A bass player? i don't know the meaning about it
thanks

Peke
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Re: Analyze Volume and Level Track Volume Questions

Post by Peke » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:01 pm

drughetto wrote:what do you mean for alternative (format specific) ? when does media monkey use replaygain and when does it use alternative ?
More read about it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReplayGain#Metadata and here http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?ti ... mentations
drughetto wrote:A bass player? i don't know the meaning about it
It is and playback engine library incompatible that is used in MM at the moment http://www.un4seen.com/bass.html
Best regards,
Pavle
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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